Why Avello Stopped Teasing His Music | EF EP 137

0:00 What happens when you manifest your career so clearly that nothing can stop you? Mita Vello, the artist who turned a bedroom producer setup into an EDC reality. The first week that I bought Ableton, you know, after that year of messing up the trial, when I really got serious about it, I told someone that the time was very close to me in my life that I was going to play EDC one day and they laughed. I don't blame them at all for laughing. I mean I had just bought Ableton and Serum and and the software a week ago and I'm talking about playing EDC but it was like I just knew exactly what I wanted to do. That laser focus didn't just get him to EDC, it helped him crack the code on modern music marketing. I don't even worry too much about the pre release teasing.

0:41 I think what you do after is way more important. The song's dropping on a Friday. I might tease it on like a Sunday or a Monday. I might make the announcement that it's coming out Friday, on Tuesday, Wednesday, maybe like another teaser on a Thursday. But then after that, like just post it as much as you can, as much as you can. Especially right now, people want to be able to go and listen to it immediately. They don't care about a month lead up, especially if you don't have a following and like an audience that is there for you. And now he's built a career where he calls the shots. And we don't have any big label deals. I haven't done anything that was more than like a two track signing. We've had a lot of offers come in that were like, hey, we want to sign 5 to 10 tracks and then you have a label that can control you for a very long time.

1:23 You need to get permission to go outside of that deal. This is elevated frequencies. I'm Olivia and today a Velo breaks down how manifestation, strategic content, and knowing when to say no build the career everyone said was impossible. OK, so I have to start with this because I've interviewed you before in 2022, and the reason I was familiar with you at EDC is because I saw your video where it was like the sleep paralysis demon saying big things coming. OK, it's been like 3-4 years now and you've actually had a lot of big things come. So knowing that, like how does it feel knowing that you kind of stuck with this and have put in so much effort over all these years, Is it rewarding? It is very rewarding.

2:10 It is very rewarding. And on one hand, you know, I think a lot of people play like the humble card and they're like, oh, I never saw this coming. Like it's amazing. But Peter and I will tell you, this has been the the picture of everything since day one. This is exactly what we've envisioned and been working towards. And for us, it was never really a matter of if. It was always a matter of when. That's how we always spoke about it. So to see things happen now, it feels amazing. But to us, it's almost like not a surprise, you know, because we've been planning this for years now. I love that. I think that's a it's really important for artists to one, layout a picture of what what they want to happen and have a plan.

2:53 But two, be honest about that. Like, yeah, being humble is cool, but like, like going after your goals and being unapologetic about it is something that especially young artists. How old are you, by the way? 2626? Young artists need to hear that. So take me back to like baby Avella. When did you start DJ and when did you first start touch Decks? What got you into the scene? So I'd say I started to get really interested in EDM about senior year of high school, which was 2018 or fall of 2018, fall of 2017, because I graduated 2018. So I started to go to some festivals. You know, I was 18 years old in high school, so kind of one of the oldest in my grade and all the events were 18. So I started going to them, thought it was super cool. Just me and a couple of my friends were into it. And then I heard Elenium and his Awake album in particular. And I just thought it was so interesting the way he was able to capture emotions and his music. It was something I hadn't heard before. It made me really interested in how that was done. And then I got the download the the free download version trial of Ableton, messed around with that for like almost a year. Probably every couple months I'd try to make something and it would suck and then I'd close my laptop just feeling like this isn't for me.

4:10 A couple months later, get motivated or go to a show and get inspired and then try to make something again and no luck. And I also, at this time that summer after high school, I bought a DJ board on Craigslist in a Walmart parking lot. Didn't even make sure that it worked. I was really lucky that it didn't have any bugs or drinks spilled on it or anything. And that that deck is probably like 20 years old. It was like a DJ controller that you hook up to a computer, but it still had real vinyl that was spinning. It was kind of made for like scratching DJs you. Still have it? I do not still have it. I I sold it at some point a few years ago. So I got that board and then went into college and I was just playing house parties. Like I remember getting my first paid gig, which was $40 to play some dudes house party for like 6 hours and I was over the moon about it, you know, texting everybody. I just got paid the DJ like we're doing it, this is awesome. And I wasn't really making music though at this point. This is about December of 2018.

5:07 Because you know, I was still kind of just frustrated with it and it wasn't really working. But then at this time, going to 2019, a switch flipped and I just had this feeling like, OK, I have to do this and I have to just go for it until I figure it out. And it was about, I would say 2 years of wanting to snap my laptop in half of just ridiculous growing pains, which, you know, everybody goes through. I teach online. I try to tell my students that, yes, well, maybe people like Martin Garrix or Elenium, like, sure, they might. Maybe they're born with some, like musically inclined minds that are better at writing melodies, like understanding music. But not one person is born knowing how to use Ableton or knowing how to use FO Studio.

5:50 That's going to be two years of growing pains no matter how you cut it. So you just got to really power through and get that out of the way. So did that for two years, just grinding, watching YouTube 24/7, trying to make songs 24/7. And then things finally started a click a little bit. I had a couple tracks that started to get some attention on TikTok. That was the year that I got booked at EDC and that we met and did that interview in 2022. And since then, it's just been nose to the grindstone, trying to get better at it every day and stick with it. And, and like I, I mentioned how my manager Peter and I have always felt about it is that it was never an if. It was just if we do all the right things. It's it's only a matter of when. Yeah. I love that I didn't know that you teach. Do you think so?

6:33 You said some people might be born musically inclined to understand melodies better. Do you think some people are born with like the opposite of that? That are so music illiterate and can't carry a tune or a beat? Because I think that's me really. And I have a brother that is an artist as well. And he got all of that talent. And I remember, like when we were young, our parents forced us into music lessons and he picked up piano, guitar and drums right away. I could not get past like the basics, the 101 of guitar. Like I wanted to smash the guitar. Well, if there's people that are really good at it naturally, there's going to be a spectrum of people who are also not good at it naturally. But I don't think that there's anything that you couldn't learn with hard work.

7:14 I think that if you were so inclined to like, I'm going to be 10 times better than my brother, I think you could go out there and outwork him no matter what skills you were born with. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Hard work will outbeat talent every single time. OK, so you mentioned Elenium a few times. When I was doing some digging I found a Her Campus interview. This was from when you're in college my. First article ever that I had. And the question they asked was if you could open for anyone, who would it be? And you've said Illenium and something pretty cool happened with Illenium in the past like 6 months for you? Yeah, I've actually played with him twice now. Really. The first time was an EDC after party EDC Orlando last year. And then I just played hit with him at San in San Francisco at Bill Graham, which I think is what you're you're referring to got on that show.

8:01 So that was awesome. But yeah, that was that was a really big one. That was my first time getting to perform with him out of state and not as like the local Support Act, you know, when he's coming through town. Right, that was all part of the plan. Is all part of the. Plan. When you were doing that, her campus interview, was that like in the back of your mind, like, were you visualizing, yeah, this is going to happen someday? Yeah, definitely. I remember the first week that I bought Ableton, you know, after that year messing out the trial, when I really got serious about it, I told someone at the time was very close to me in my life that I was going to play EDC one day and they laughed. I don't blame them at all for laughing. I mean I had just bought Ableton and Serum and and the software a week ago and I'm talking about playing EDC but it was like I just knew exactly what I wanted to do.

8:45 Where does that? Because a lot of people have parents that are not necessarily like supportive or or maybe they're supportive, but they're not understanding of someone who has these goals, playing music festivals, playing clubs, being a touring artist. Where did you get that confidence from, from your family? Like where did it come from? It's a good question, I think. Some of it might be innate, I think some of it might also come from my upbringing, you know, being told that you can go out there and do anything. I'm also really inspired by the movie Surfs Up. What's what is Is that a Disney movie? It's not a Disney, I think it's DreamWorks, but it's an animated movie about this Penguin who loves the surf and no one in his hometown surfs.

9:31 They all like work at the fish factory in Antarctica and he's like desperate to get out of there and go to do the surfing competition at A at a island. And the movie is awesome because everybody's telling him don't do it. He doesn't get drafted the competition, but he like, chases down the whale that everybody's riding to the island on and like, catches up and they let him in and he basically forces his way into the competition. Doesn't take no for an answer. And I saw the movie when I was six years old and it like, changed my life. And I still have watched it several times in my adult life. And it's one of the few children's movies that I think carries really adult themes and that has stood the test of time over the last like 20 years. If you haven't seen it, I would watch it. It's a great movie. Yeah, I'm gonna watch. I could. Probably write an essay on this movie right here. And if you've been following me for a while, you may have seen me post about it before.

10:17 But I always picture that scene where the contest bus, the contest whale left him behind and he chases it down. And that's how I felt with my career, you know, like, just don't give up. Even when you get thrown back. Just keep on pushing forward. And as long as you do the right things, you don't stop. I think that anything's possible. Wow, I love that lesson and I love I want to talk about your content because I mean, you really are one of the hardest working artists out there when it comes to content. I've seen everything from like you use Pokémon like imagery to, you know, the funny meme videos that you've done in the past. You're posting sometimes twice a day. First of all, do you think that that's the reason you've had like this fast track to success?

11:05 Where do you fit in credit or content in terms of crediting? Like your trajectory with your career? I think it's easily equal to the music. I think the two things, the two things nowadays have to come together. I'll be the first to tell you I'm not the best producer. There are 1,000,000 guys out there who are 100 times better than I am, but they don't make content. They just want to focus on the music, and there's nothing wrong with that. Or there's people on the other end of the spectrum where like they make a lot of content, but they don't focus very much on the music. I think the two have to come together, right? You have to make music that's good enough. It doesn't have to be great, but it has to be good enough that people will like it, and then you have to be able to get it in front of them and cut through the noise. So content this day and age is just one of those tools. Yeah, In 20 years it might be something else, you know. Content is a tool.

11:56 One thing that I think you've been able to do successfully is like build a community with your content. Like people really enjoy seeing your content and this argument that I get on my page all the time because the content that I post is all about how to make better content, right? And it's very polarizing with the music purists who are like, it's all about the music, you know, like this is what it's become now. It's why is content more important than, you know, the the technicalities of the good music. So where do you, where do you land on the spectrum of that argument? Because you have a lot of artists who are like very anti everything you're saying. I mean, I understand their points, like they wanted to be about about the music. And if you want to just be a musician, then you can just be a musician. But if you want to make a career out of it and there's only one thing that really matters and it's can you sell tickets? And if nobody knows about you, then you're not going to be able to sell tickets.

12:49 You're not be able to tour and at least have a career off of it in a performance aspect. But I understand what they're saying, You know, they don't want it to be funny videos that take song to the top. They want the real songwriting to go to the top, but unfortunately there's just not a list of like the 100 best songs or like the 100 artists who deserve it the most. I hear that thrown around a lot. Like there that just doesn't exist. And that that's an every aspect of pretty much every business ever is that there's always some level of marketing and perception and the right product that's good enough being in front of the right people and it just cuts to the noise. So that's my take on that. I don't, I don't disagree with it entirely, you know, but it's just about what you want to do in the industry. Yeah, yeah.

13:34 I, I try to think like, what if Instagram was around like in the 80s when like, hair metal bands were popular, right? And like, was Poison the best band ever? Do you know, do you know who Poison is or am I OK? I'm like in my 30s. I feel like I'm like I'm so freaking old I. Can get the reference. The Poison is like, you know, it was a stupid hair metal band that they looked ridiculous. They wore makeup, you know, are they the most talented musicians on the spectrum of like rock'n'roll history in the 70s and 80s? Surely not. But like they had a thing that made them unique and stand out. So I think it's just the same concept applied to different mediums as marketing and the way that we can promote ourselves changes and and shifts.

14:22 Yeah. And also, like, you're naturally funny. That's the thing. You're welcome. I mean, like, I told you that the first time I met you, I'm like, I was dying. Like I watched that video 100 times. If it doesn't come naturally to you, like don't do it right. Like don't try to be funny if if you're not funny. I think the point people are missing is, is like you need to lean into your strengths that are going to help you get your music to the finish line. Like think of it as a vehicle for the music, not a replacement of the music. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And back to what you were saying about 20 years ago, you know what, what was it like 20 years ago, 30 years ago, it was all gate kept by labels, by publications, by radio.

15:05 People back then were complaining about all those things. Man, if I could just get on the radio, I know we'd be huge at this magazine. It's label would just sign our song, bro. I know we'd be huge. And now it's the same thing. But just people are complaining about social media. And The funny thing is, is you now have artists now have more control than they did back then. Back then, you had to convince that label exact who you could never get in the same room as to listen to your song. Now you can post a video and a million people can see it and it costs you nothing and you can post as many times as you want. So I think that some people, they're looking for excuses. They're looking for things that tell themselves about why they're not successful, because it's hard to accept the fact that either A they're not good enough, or B they didn't work hard enough.

15:50 Yeah, yeah, I love how straightforward that you, you explain that because it's, it's like a hard pill to swallow. And I'm very grateful that the listeners of my show get it. Like they're not the ones complaining about this. They're locked in. They they want to do the work. You know, I, I had a Patreon for a while. And so I'm very tapped in with like the people listen to this show and they're all like, I I can see an illustrious career for all of them because they're willing to put in the work. But yeah, the the dissenters, like, you know, in my comments, and I'm sure you've seen it too, that this discourse is from people who I agree they, they need an excuse for their lack of execution, for their lack of trying.

16:34 And I don't think it's rejection that they actually fear. They're just like, they fear wasting time, like, oh, I'm going to do all this work and then nothing's going to pan out. Yeah, those people look at each video or each song as an individual success or failure, and they're not. You put out 100 songs, so you get to the one that really resonates with people or that you really love. Or you make 100 videos so that one of them cuts through the noise. But instead they make a couple, see they didn't work well and think that's going to be the rest of the story. And they get it all. Or they they post once a day for a week and they come and say that they tried, saw a video Gary Vee was talking about.

17:15 You really haven't tried. So you've posted like 100 times in 100 days. Yeah, that's the threshold of even trying, you know, Then you look back and see maybe what worked, what didn't re evaluate. But I always think about that when I see people upset, you know, that their music isn't getting heard. The first thing I do is I check out their social media and they posted the song one time and gave up after that. So what is your content strategy when you have an upcoming release? Because a lot of people seem to think that it's all about like the build up to that release, but then they post and then they do nothing with it once it's actually out. So what's Give me your timeline? I don't even worry too much about the pre release teasing. I think what you do after is way more important. So I might, if a song is dropping on a Friday, I might tease it on like a Sunday or a Monday. I might make the announcement that it's coming out Friday, on Tuesday, Wednesday, maybe like another teaser on a Thursday. But then after that, like just post it as much as you can, as much as you can.

18:18 Especially right now, people want to be able to go and listen to it immediately. They don't care about a month lead up, especially if you don't have a following and like an audience that is there for you. They're just scrolling and and they might, you might have come across their page and they'll give you a chance on the song and they might like the song, but they can't go listen to it right now. So they don't follow, they don't engage, they keep it moving. Or maybe the song is out and they go and listen to it, but it's your only song. So you need to have a lot of songs to convert someone from just a fan of that track into a fan of you. I think that's another thing that a lot of people overlook is they want the first couple to like be hits and you have to have this whole discography that people can go and explore and feel like they discovered, you know, then they can become a fan of you from that song.

19:09 Another thing kind of while we're on this topic of, you know, popping up in people's feeds and them and watching your videos is I think it comes down to a simple formula of trust and dopamine. That's it. Like, why isn't your, why are people engaged with your video? Well, they don't trust you. They don't recognize your face or your hook wasn't good enough. Now, let's say you break past that first barrier. They they, they trusted you. They decided, OK, something about this video makes me want to give it 10 seconds of my time. If you, if you get that 10 seconds from them and they don't have a dopamine hit at the end of it, then you lost them the next time that they see you in in your, in their feed. Now they haven't, they don't trust you at all.

19:50 So it's very hard to like earn someone's trust, you know, just like in real life and very easy to break it. It's the same thing with people viewing your videos. If you post a bunch of bad ones in a row, you're going to lose their trust. The people that follow you and like kind of religiously engage you have a little bit more leeway. You know they understand there's a bigger picture to it. You're not just some random person in their feed. But if you don't have a following and this person has never heard of you once, you have to earn their A earn their trust and then B give them a dopamine hit or you're going to lose them probably forever until something really catches their attention. Maybe you get lucky and have another post, but that's kind of the simplified formula of what I think makes a video successful or not. Wow, that's I love how you describe that. That's going to be a sound bite for sure. You know, when I first started this podcast, I thought and God, the way I promoted it in the beginning was so bad. But you learn.

20:43 You learn by doing and making mistakes and having videos flop. I thought that because I had, first of all, it was virtual in the beginning, which nobody wants to watch virtual clips anymore. So it was one thing working against me, but second of all, I thought, oh, this is a big DJ, people are going to recognize who this person is. And then I was like, I if, if one of my favorite DJs walked down like down the street past me, there's like an 80% chance I wouldn't even realize it because I don't pay attention to anything, number one. But #2 DJs kind of have that. Like, unless you're like Diplo walking around with purple hair, a lot of you guys are pretty inconspicuous.

21:23 And so I realized that like a clip of me and an artist was not a good enough hook on its own. And that was like 101, right? Like that's when I first started promoting this podcast. And so then I was like, Oh, let me add their name. And I'm like, OK, that's still not enough. Like no one's going to stop just because they you see the name Claude Von Stroke. And so then it was like, OK, now I need a really good text hook. You know, that's, that's catchy, that's going to be attention grabbing. That's going to like create some tension. And it like, I had to get all those flops to get to where I am now to have successful content. But I think a lot of people just rest on their laurels and think, oh, I shot this in a cool, unique location. Like in 2026, that's not enough.

22:07 Like you need something extra. And that trust and dopamine is, is exactly what you're talking about. And then I want to circle back to what you said about releases, because this is something with some of my clients in my my artist clients in my agency that I deal with with them and some of their team members who don't agree the whole pre release versus the follow up. As a fan, I don't care if you're like one of my top five favorite artists, like like no shade to like Clooney, for example, but he or Sosa, I can't remember who it was, Sosa with that song, White girl. He was promoting that song for so long and it didn't come out. And I just got pissed and then didn't want to listen to it based on principle because I'm like, I'm tired of hearing 15 seconds of this over and over and then I'm not getting the whole song. And so I think like, you can actually lose trust with your fans if you make them wait too long. And I know a lot of times it could be out of your control with the label and stuff, but that's why I think it's so important as an artist to act advocate your for yourself if you're working with a label to get concrete dates so you can work backwards and make sure you don't fall in that trap. Yeah, absolutely.

23:16 I think people are tired of waiting a month or two. They want it out in a day or two if it's not already out. Yeah. Because if I'm hearing it, what? Because because that's not what happened back in the day before Instagram, right? Like you had to go hear a song at a concert and then you would buy the CD for it or hear it on the radio or whatever like that. That's the one different biggest difference I think between now and then is like, you didn't just get this 15 second snippets and what if the rest of the song is ass? You know what I mean? Like it? Almost doesn't matter. Yeah. So, so it's just like just release the track. Like I, yeah, that's something that I, I deal with with. You would think that like labels would be a little bit more savvy when it comes to that, but I there's a there's a disconnect. Yeah, I don't even know if it's like a thing about being savvy, but it's just like with anything going on with a group of people, you know, in a job or an office working on something, there are holdups, you know, there are weekends, people or holidays or distracting projects or somebody important was out sick, just set it back a day or two because the meeting didn't happen. You know, things like that.

24:31 It's just a lot of moving parts. The more people that get involved. I think that that's one thing that has kept Peter and I very agile is that we have a small team and we don't have any big label deals. I haven't done any anything that was more than like a two track signing. Whereas, you know, we've had a lot of offers come in that we're like, hey, we want to sign 5 to 10 tracks. And then you have a label that can control you for a very long time. You need to get permission to go outside of that deal if you want to release a song not on that label or you have to do it on their timeline and play by their rules if you want to drop the song. But with us, it's kind of like, oh, this Friday is free, let's just get it out there one way or another. Sometimes we find labels that are willing to move really, really fast with us.

25:16 Or, you know, just the classic old Distro Kid. I just released a base version of I run with Bonnie and Clyde and we just dropped it on Distro Kid. Yeah, yeah, I saw that. Yeah. I've heard that Horror Story for so many artists who have gone through, you know, the label saying, OK, 10 tracks, but then they don't give a definitive timeline. And it's like you could be waiting years and that that that literally handcuffs you, which is crazy. I was going to ask another question about labels and I forgot. Maybe it'll come back to me. But so I want to talk about your college experience a little bit because a a lot of people who listen to this show are still in college and are trying to figure out how to leverage that time. I think it's such a unique like if you're in college right now, I think you're one of the luckiest people if you're trying to be a DJ because the opportunity to just play a party and get content of it to like show proof of draw.

26:11 Everyone wants to party in college. Like it wasn't so much a thing. People DJ ING when I went to college 2010 and 2014. There was a few, but like it was mostly at clubs. Talk to me about how you took advantage of like the party scene where you in you were in Orlando. I. Went to FS, yeah. OK, talk to me about how you took advantage of that and how artists right now who are in college could take advantage to get content and show proof of draw for their careers. So I have some advice on D Jing in college and that sort of path to success, but I really saw the other side of it. So I think what I'm about to share is going to make people feel better if they're not having luck performing in college.

26:55 But so I went to all the bars around FSU, big party school, all the bars and all the clubs. And I was like trying to get in there, send in the mixes, trying to talk to the right people. You know, I even had literally walked in for basically a job interview and this guy asked me a little bit about my experience, asked me if I was in Greek life, which I wasn't because, you know, it's very important just get people out there. But I was really bad. I had barely an idea of what beat matching was. I had absolutely no idea what key matching was. So I was sending out these mixes where I would like turn on the flanger effect and play the next song. I thought it was awesome and and playing like all this mainstream EDM, a lot of these clubs were just like pop and rap, you know, that sort of thing. So I sent out these mixes.

27:40 A couple clubs let me play like some private events, you know, and like a sorority or a frat rents it out for the night for their formal. And I was just bad. Straight up I was just bad and burned all those bridges and nobody wanted to book me. Meanwhile, I saw my peers playing there like Monday through Friday, posting all the time content from it, making good money off of it, and just, you know what looked like success while I was at home just working on music back in the apartment. And I think it's funny because once we left school, they didn't really, and this is not everybody, you know, but then there are some very successful people that came out of Tallahassee DJ and but a lot of people that they don't have those connections in other cities.

28:27 So they go move to another city. They, they don't have their boy who's in their same frat and can get him those gigs at the venue, you know? So but I was making my own music and that ended up taking me a lot farther because your music can reach much farther than your, your local performance ever can. So the moral of the story that I want to said I want to be the take away there is the local scene. While it might feel like instant gratification and immediate success, like you're playing shows all the time and you're making some money long term, it's not sustainable unless you just never leave that town and never have intentions of really playing outside of that area. And the other thing that I want people to take away is it doesn't matter if you burn every bridge or if you put yourself out there and you suck because in a couple years nobody's going to care. You move somewhere else.

29:16 It's a brand new start. You start dropping music. Nobody cares really about your mixes. They're like, oh, this guy has a track with a million plays and looks like he can DJ. Let's book him at the show, you know, and you figure it out. And I got a lot better D Jing, thankfully. But it just it's not a big deal if you burn those bridges right off the bat. And I see a lot of people who are scared to leave the bedroom until they're like, they perfected it, but they end up shooting themselves in the foot because they're scared to ever take that leap. And sometimes you just got to be in over your head to get better at something. I even played like my first dubstep show where I was booked as a Vello to play bass music, and I was horrible. I went to this underground bass show in Tallahassee, always playing like deep dubstep and very underground music.

30:01 I was brand new to like this bass scene. I was playing like Slander, Ghastly, All American Rejects remixes. But like 30 of my friends came out and we had a blast. Obviously never got booked there again, but it just didn't matter because it was a great experience and I got some content from it and just got like that first show out of the. World yeah, no, what you're basically saying is like you just got to get the reps in and put yourself out there and I think college is a great time to do that because yeah, that's not going to follow you, you know, like people are the the news cycle for anything that happens good or bad is so quick now like that's like that is the time to make your mistakes and people are too.

30:45 Well, I don't know do people get up in college anymore? I know that like Gen. Z is like more sober now but at least when I was in college like everyone was too fucked up to remember anything. Yeah, I mean, I'm a couple years out now too, but FSU is a party school for sure, for sure. And but I just think if you're like trying to make music and try to get your career started, that Friday night, like bar club gig is not going to be as beneficial as being at home making a banger. A lot of people get too wrapped around the axle about their success in the local scene or they have a lot of success in the local scene and it goes to their head a little bit. But it's really about what you're doing behind closed doors when it's just you and your laptop and how hard you grind there.

31:29 Well, that's a testament to also like you can't get too comfortable in any one place, right? Like whether that is your hometown, unless you want to be a hometown local DJ, which like in Chicago, that's a badge of honor for the people who've been around for a long time. And they're like pillars of this scene. So that's a little bit different. But like Chicago's a lot different than like, you know, a small town, small college town, whatever. So Speaking of that, this is your first time in Chicago. I want to know how you cause Chop Shop is a very unique venue. It's not like the typical club circuit in Chicago. It's more of a venue and they have a restaurant. What were the indicators of success for you where you knew like, OK, I can start to take this show on the road to bigger places, more unique places.

32:18 You told me Chop Shop just sold out. So like, what were the indicators of success for you in the last year or so that you could start branching out to more places like Chicago? Well, the offer started coming in for them. So like, I dropped a couple remixes over the summer that really started to pop. And then my social media started to grow. I had people commenting, you know, asking if I was coming to this city or that city, and then promoters and venues reaching out, offering to book me out there. So when we booked this show, were we confident that it was going to sell out? No. But like, you just got to jump in a little bit over your head and turns out, you know, we made it happen and just got to take it one at a time and do that at the next one. Is that the next one? Have you said no to any shows?

33:00 Yes, definitely got to be careful about what you take. Some people think that any touring is good to good touring and like the first year or two maybe, but then it really becomes like, OK, are you setting yourself up for success if you book this show? Is there a good chance that maybe it's not going to sell well? Maybe there's something else going on that night that might be competing with you, quite frankly. Like what are the optics of it? You know, are you going to be on door slot, on the door slot and there's like 4 people after you? It's better to, yeah, I mean, you maybe you want to play a show out of your state, but it's probably better to to pass on that show depending on where you are in your career and keep working so that when you do come to Chicago, it's not for a door slot, it's for a direct support slot or your own headline.

33:45 So we are very careful and I'm lucky to have Peter and Uta there to to help navigate that because I have no experience in that area. Yeah. When when did you do you remember what year? Because I mean 2022 EDC that was technically the local for you because it was in Orlando, but that's a major festival. When did you take your career from local to touring? I mean, there's kind of two phases to that. So the first phase was like around that time I was playing an occasional out of state show, like maybe supporting someone every couple months in a different state just kind of randomly. But then now this is the Phase 2 of it where it's like every show is pretty much out of state or my own headline or a big support play.

34:32 So I would say it's very recent that the touring got serious and consistent. What's changed? Like are you a you're a routine guy or you go with the flow guy? I say I'm more of a routine guy, so it makes it hard and still getting used to it. You know, like I was on the road for five days last week, sleep 4-5 hours a night. And then you come back and you try to be productive and make music and you got all your meetings that week just like usual. It's really tough to get back on that schedule. Like I just started feeling normal yesterday and we're back back out to say, but you know, I'm, I'm still very new to it, especially this level of consistency with it. So I know that I'll figure it out and, and find a system that helps me feel good.

35:12 And, you know, take care. Got to take care of your body, got to take care of your mental health. And then you got to say, on top of making music and keeping the career going. Yeah. That's I talk a lot about working on versus working in your career and in your career is like, you know, finishing the track, doing the gig, posting the content, but then working on your career is like the strategy. Like, OK, what is the release schedule for this year and why? What makes sense where like routing the tours, like the, you know, the strategy. And it's so easy to get swept up in the excitement of just, like, the gigs and like, doing, like, the day-to-day stuff that then you get back home and you're like, oh, fuck, Like, I still have a career to build.

35:53 Yeah. Yeah, that's tough. That's tough. And I'm, I'm just now like getting my feet wet and that. So I don't have a lot of advice there. Yeah, yeah, no, but it's cool like that. I'm because I interview artists at all different stages of their career and it's cool to see someone that's like in the thick of starting that now you did a you you posted something recently that was like, don't forget to imagine the best case scenario too. Is that like, does that relate to like you just kind of being a big visualizer or what? What inspired that? That was kind of inspired by, I often think of the worst case scenario. I think of like, OK, if we do this, like what if X happens? What if Y happens?

36:34 What if it completely gets screwed up and we're left hanging, hanging out to dry? But I think it's really important also, and I just remind myself to also picture the best case scenario. Russ talks a lot about this. The rapper, you know, regardless, is kind of a controversial guy, regardless of how you feel about him. But read like his book is really good. I think he talks a lot about getting out of your own way and just letting the best case scenario happen. It's it's almost just as likely that it's going to go either way, you know, but so many people, they don't even take that first step because they've imagined all the worst case scenarios and never thought about like, wow, what if it really goes my way? And I'll give you a story right here. I knew that Elenium was playing the sunset set at Lost Lands and he'd been playing my No Broke Boys remix like almost every show it seemed like.

37:20 I was always getting videos, been playing it at festivals and and whatnot. And I wasn't going to go to Lost Lands. I decided like 3 days before because I told myself, all right, best case scenario, what if you're there backstage and he turns around and he sees you there and Elenium brings you up at Lost Lands for your track? Like that's the best case scenario. What if that's possible? How many chances is that is there going to be for that, you know, where he's playing your track And, and all these things are lining up like I should at least be there so that the best case scenario is possible. And I went there and sure enough, that's exactly what happened. I, I got backstage and I was on stage with him and he hadn't seen me. But like I told his tour manager, I was like, yo, what's up? He's been playing my remix, Think he's going to play it tonight.

38:01 And he taps him on the leg and he turns around and looks at me and he goes, hey, what's up, bro? I'm playing your remix. You want to come up for it later? I'm like, it's shock and awe, you know? Absolutely. This is like a big reason why I'm even here right now. But try to play it cool. Yeah, I did. All right, let's drop the remix. Sounds good. And then he brought me up and played it. And. But that, that's an example of I could have sat there and thought, you know, oh, what if going all the way to Lost Lands is a waste of time this year? What if he does? What if I'm there and he doesn't play it or, or something like that? But hey, sometimes the best case scenario can play out if you make it possible. I, that story is fucking amazing. That's, that's what I was talking about of the fear of wasting time. So many artists have that and it's like, but what if it's not wasted? And it's never wasted because it always, you know, the effort always compounds.

38:46 But that's a perfect example. I, I interviewed you at EDC because on a whim, I made an audition tape. They weren't like taking submissions, but I was just like, hey, I'm Olivia and I'm a former TV journalist and I love dance music. So you should hire me to interview people. And that they did, you know, so it's like very similar. I'm just like, what if they see? They might not see this, but what if they see this? And what if they asked me to come do interviews? And three weeks later, I was in the chair with you. I think you were like one of my first. Yeah. So that's awesome. I love that there's probably somebody at home sitting there watching your video. Man, it'd be so cool to like do that interview, but it's never possible for me. You know, if you just put yourself out there and it happened for you, that's awesome. That's, that's what I hope for the people who listen to this show is that they'll be in your chair someday.

39:30 So. Thank you, me too. This is this was so great to catch up. Thank you for your wisdom. I feel like you could teach a master class, especially with content. And congratulations on your sold out show. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.