Virality Doesn't Fill Shows (feat. SIPPY) | EF EP 142

0:00 What happens when you stop playing it safe and create the music that scares you? I kind of got to the point that I was like, I don't feel like I can release any more music until I like finish this. Like I kind of want to just like finish telling this story. And it wasn't even for other people. It was like for myself. For Sippy, creating scars and stereo meant betting her career on. Vulnerability. None of it was a business decision. None of it probably even made sense in where I was in my career. She'd built a loyal fan base on lighthearted club bangers, and now she was about to show them something completely different. You were concerned, like, how am I going to be perceived? Will my fans still ride with me?

0:42 And when it came time to play these deeply personal songs live, the fear was real. The second I press play I'm like so nervous. My Oh my gosh, like I don't want to look at everyone while I play this. For what? Happened next, changed everything. But as I started like playing these songs and looking in the crowd, I noticed how much like people were singing every word. The risk paid off because sometimes your deepest truth is exactly what your fans need to hear. This is sippy on elevated frequencies. Ever wonder how top DJs actually built their careers? I had to do 15 years of hard work to get any of the recognition that I wanted. Where I saw a turning point in my career is when I came true to myself. From marketing and mindset to networking and negotiation, I'm giving you the tools you need to build a lasting career in dance music.

1:31 Give them bits of you and your everyday life. You have to change the way you view the. Word no like me, I'm encouraged by it. Join me, Olivia Mancuso and industry leaders as we reveal what it really takes to turn your passion into profit. This is Elevated frequencies. This episode is sponsored by LILO where culture drops first. Lilo is the drop platform and CRM used by artists and promoters like Fisher, Chris Lake, James Hype, Mochak, Weethan and tech support to create hype around big moments and build a Direct Line to fans. With Lilo, you can capture phone numbers from social media and message your biggest supporters when tickets are merch go live, plus reward them with exclusives.

2:16 It works across SMS, e-mail, WhatsApp and Instagram DMS with integrations like Shopify and Spotify, voicemail hotlines, and a complete tour suite. When you're ready to hit the road, Laylo makes it easy and affordable for DJs to drop in your style and build a fandom that lasts. Use the link in our show notes for 15,000 free messaging credits with code Olivia 15. You came in today on a train. You took my advice, took the train, which was adventurous. Then you should appear on a Lime scooter which is insane only. Just make it happen. Just. Like I know which thank you so much for making this. I mean you literally took like multiple modes of transportation. I was.

2:58 Talking to my sister actually today while I was on the train and she was like, oh, where are you now? Because I'd spoken to her just before and I was on my flight and she's like, oh, where are you now? You want to flight or you want to bus like and I'm like, I'm on a train. So I realized that this like while I've been travelling over this period, I have been on a like obviously in cars and Ubers and all that. I was on a bus, like a bus to a bus. I was on obviously commercial flights. I was on a private jet. I was on a yeah, I was on, no, it was like a rent. It was, it wasn't like someone who owned it, you know, it was like a private company, you know what I mean? So then I was on that.

3:43 Then I had the train I I literally like there's not much left, no and a Lime scooter. Yeah, and a Lime scooter you just need to bolt in a rowboat to your next gig. You. You have been non-stop touring since I first met you, which was like late last summer. Yeah. Like July, August, is your album tour officially done or you still in the thick of that? So technically, I think technically tomorrow is my last one for that tour. Oh, actually, no, I think next weekend is the last weekend of it because it kind of had like phase one and then we added more shows at the end and then I think it's done. Wow.

4:28 Yeah, wow. So when we met, you were just getting ready to to launch Scars in. Stereo, yeah. So OK, let's kind of set, set the stage, tell everybody what this album was and why it was different from what you have been doing. So I don't know, I'm obviously like bass music, dubstep producer kind of even though it's I'd have a lot of dubstep, it's also a little bit, you know, I kind of jump around everywhere. Bit of bass house, bit of drama bass, bit of whatever. You know, everything has always been kind of fairly light hearted very or like even, you know, a bit of a meme, you know, like I definitely make songs.

5:09 I'm like, you know, this is just like a bit of fun and nothing too serious. And then Scars and Stereo. This album was a bit more like the music. I definitely had some more like Moody music. Naturally, I actually write a lot more Moody music, but just didn't really feel like it fit because I was very focused on like clubs and like, you know, that kind of clubbing music. And it felt a little bit more like headphones, sit by yourself, sit in the car and listen to kind of music. So I had put a couple of those out before, but, you know, I had more and more that I was writing and I kind of was like, and I was just holding on to them. And I held on to quite a few.

5:51 And then I got to a point where I was like, OK, what am I releasing next? You know, I was like, I don't feel like I don't have any music to release. But then I like, looked at all that music and I was like, well, I have like a whole album of this music almost, you know? So then I started to be like, OK, like, you know, is it time to put it out? And am I writing an album? And I just kind of had a moment where I was like, you know what? Like, so I was like, I want to finish because I had a few songs here and there that I'd written over a period of a few years. And it was mostly just about like how I was feeling at the time. It was more for me than anything else. It was kind of like moments where I was depressed, moments where I was really anxious, moments where things really frustrated me.

6:37 You know, I had all these moments and it was all, you know, like, I'm going to be honest, like a lot of it was pretty heavy. And so I just kind of held on to them because I just wrote them for my own, you know, for my own piece of my own creativity. But then I didn't really want to release them so or not want to release them, but just didn't feel right. And then when it when I kind of saw them all together, I was like, Oh, this is the whole album. So I kind of got to the point that I was like, I don't feel like I can release any more music until I, like finish this. Like, I kind of want to just like, finish telling this story. And it wasn't even for other people. It was like, for myself, it's like, I want to close this chapter and like, move on.

7:18 So, you know, I was like, OK, I'm writing an album. And none of it was a business decision. None of it probably even made sense in where I was in my career or, you know, what makes sense to release as someone, you know, at my sort of stage in my career and all of that. But it, you know, turned out to be the best thing that I could have done. Yeah, you have, you have this amazing, like spoken word intro to it that I told you I was like this gives me Eminem vibes, like when you know, when you which like I meant this. Supplement because I'm like, no, I just say that because I'm like, I think he's incredible and I'm not like a rapper or anything.

7:59 So like hearing you say that I'm like, I love. That it was because it was filled with so much emotion and it was so powerful. It kind of made me stop. And I was like, whoa, you know, and, and even my husband, like in the other room, he's like, what is that? Like that sounds so cool. I'm like, you know, I was like, come check this out. And it really tied the whole body of work together. Yeah, And that was one of the last things that I did. And it was very much like I had so the actual piece of music I wrote I think in like 2018, like so long ago. And I knew I was like, I just want to hold on to this because I'll eventually turn it into like a releasable track. And then, you know, it kind of came back in and I still like loved it.

8:41 And eventually I was like, oh, hang on a minute, like this is this is the intro. And I knew like straight away I was like, I want like I want this to be spoken word and I'm going to do it. And then I kind of like tried to explain it to a few people and they're a bit like like this, like that. And I was like, you know what, I'm not even like going to tell people about it because I'm like, I know what it, what I need it to be for myself. So I'm just going to go off and do it. And it was one of the last things I did. I think it was like the second last thing I did And I was in Australia and I just like locked myself in a room and just like journaled about. And it was, I don't think it would have been the same if I'd done it earlier because the whole feeling of the whole album was really fresh to me.

9:26 And I was kind of going back to like, you know, some of them were, some of the songs were like newer experiences. Some of the songs were from older experiences. But because I just like pretty much almost finished the whole album, it was all very like fresh to me. So then I'd like sat down literally like, you know, shut all the blinds, got myself in this like little dark room and just had the music playing and was just journaling like about all of it. And I think like, I don't know, it took me like from the journaling, it turned into the actual song so quick. Like it was almost like the journal was coming out as it was meant to be said. And I really only changed like a few things.

10:07 And it was probably one of the early takes that I ended up using because it just was, I was still so like emotional from writing it. And even some of the lyrics I changed. I think I'd told you that before. So there's a lyric that says, you know, now I'm spiralling and I miss my mum. And the original lyrics was like, I don't even think it was now I'm spiraling. It was something and then it said and I miss my loved ones, but it was very like well put together. But as I was like saying it even the now I'm spiraling, I kind of like lost my place and then just like yelled out like I miss my mom. And then I was like. That's the part that gave me goosebumps. Both times it was it was so.

10:48 Intense. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was so incredible. It was very. Cathartic to write. I was like, like, I feel like a weight lifted on. I bet, I bet. Yeah. And it wasn't until, like, I actually had to like, like, submit it because I didn't think about how it would be perceived really. You know, I just kind of did it. And then I was like, not only am I putting it out, but it's the first song. Like this is the first impression of the album. And that's when I was like, holy. And then I was just like, OK, just don't think about it. Just put it out. Like, just put it out there. Like, you know. Yeah. Well, that was that was a big thing for you because this was such a different Ave. Yeah. Putting together this body of work, sharing it with people, it's a lot more emotional.

11:28 The songs had meaning. Not to say your others didn't, but they were more fun, lighthearted. You were concerned like, how am I going to be perceived? Will my fans still ride with me? And it really seems like they did. But I want to hear it from you. Now that you're kind of at the tail end of this tour, what was the reception like for those ride or die fans that like show up in the fuzzy Bunny masks and like are expected, you know, you to just like party with them? What was their response? Honestly, it was like it was really interesting because I feel like there was such a buzz even before it came out in terms of like my true fans are just really there. They're so invested, which is awesome.

12:10 I think they see a lot more because they're watching my stories are kind of really, I don't know, just like plugged into it all, but it they were kind of like two sides of it because on the one side, like in terms of the shows, like the shows went really well. Like I haven't gone off and and done this and I don't really know if I want to because I don't really like focusing. I'm not focusing on this stuff, but like prepare comparing too much. But most of the shows on the 2 are sold out, which was amazing. And I think from a live perspective, there were so many people that are just so in it very much like in terms of just what I'm doing, they're very in it.

12:56 They very much enjoyed my sets and all of that sort of stuff. That's just on the like more professional, seeing the growth side, just seeing like the size of rooms that I'm playing that are getting bigger and like the amount of people that are coming to shows, you know, and how invested they are in terms of like merch and also like my brand, I kind of left it a little bit open. So that obviously like I have merch and it's awesome that people support me and the people buy that and wear that. But there's also a lot of other things that people where to like express themselves that are very like sippy coded, but not necessarily much. And it was really cool to see people like very much like run with that and do that as well. So that's like on the one side of just seeing the growth. But then the other side of it was seeing like how people really connected with the music.

13:44 I got really self-conscious to kind of play it in sets because it's obviously like a lot it wasn't necessarily written, or some of them were written for like the live setting, but not all of it. So it was kind of like nerve wracking for me to play it live. And seeing the thing that was crazy was like, I'd always go to play to play a song from the album and get really like the second I press play, I'm like so nervous. I'm like, Oh my gosh, like I don't want to look at everyone while I play this because I just had this feeling of like, it's not, you know, like light and, and all that sort of stuff. But as I started like playing these songs, like and looking in the crowd, I noticed how much like people were singing every word.

14:27 Some people were like, also just like having a moment to themselves. And just, it was awesome to see how people connected with it, you know, and even though, yes, we are in a live setting and we're having fun and we're being goofballs and all that. It was called it also like take a few moments through that hour and a half to like have that music and, and watch people's, you know, kind of reaction to it, especially if they weren't, they didn't really notice that I was watching them, which sounds like really weird, but like they're they're so in the moment. And it was nice for me to kind of see that from a way that felt because it, it is a bit like, it makes you feel a little bit insecure because you're like, these are my deepest, you know, feelings, you know, and then you're like, oh, I have to watch like someone else react to that. But, you know, when you're seeing them in a way that feels slightly removed, you know, it's quite, it's quite nice. But seeing how much people were like really like, you know, knowing every word really also just like meeting people after my shows and them telling me like, you know, I've had, I've been having a really hard time and this song has been on repeat.

15:36 And I, you know, it's just really helped me get through these feelings, you know, like that's obviously how it is for me listening to, to other music. And also the way I wrote it was, was for that very reason. So it was really awesome to see it like deeply connect with people. And I think it sort of helped me to, I don't know, it helped me get closer to my fan base and it allowed them to see that deeper level of me that was always obviously there. It's just like, hard sometimes for me to portray it in any other way than if we're, you know, kind of sitting next to each other having a chat, right? Yeah, right. So for the artists who listen to this show and like are maybe a little bit earlier on their journey, I get this question a lot of like, well, do I need to stick to 1 sound, 1 theme, one genre, whatever. When can I switch it up?

16:28 I don't think there's one right formula necessarily, but what were the indications in your mind that were like, OK, I've built enough trust that now I can take a pivot and it's the risk. It's still a risk, but it but it feels a little less risky. Yeah, I think I've always stayed very, like, open with the music that I create and the music that I play. I think because in my sets, you know, I was showing a lot of people that I'm very, you know, I was throwing a lot of people in my sets in terms of variety. And I think seeing how people react to that and the fact that more people were coming to my sets and people were really enjoying it, that obviously gave me some comfort of like, OK, you know, they know like that if they're coming to a sippy set, that it's not going to be the same for an hour, an hour and a half. You know, like I'm, I'm going to give them a bit of a surprise here or there.

17:25 You know, like we're not, I mean, as in, in terms of like genre and where we're going and something a little bit different that maybe they wouldn't normally hear in like a bass music set or something like that. So seeing the way they react to that obviously made me be like, OK, they're, they're open minded. I had released a few songs in the past that were not, you know, sort of like heavy club bangers. And I feel like there was not, even though it felt different for me because I'm not necessarily playing them as much in sets, seeing the way that people reacted to them online, you know, it, it definitely had a similar, you know, it was a comparable listenership to the heavy stuff, you know.

18:07 Yeah. And that that definitely like gave me the confidence, but also like, and this is like a whole thing that I could go so deep into, but it was also a bit of like me reconnecting with my artistry. And also like I had a long period of time where I was really not sort of connect, not not connected to what I was doing, But I wasn't, I was doing a lot of things out of fear. And I really so badly wanted to like be successful, whatever that means. And it kind of got me into a place where I wasn't listening to what I had to like I used to be so in in touch with like what felt right for my journey and artistry and all of that sort of stuff.

18:50 And I really lost sight of that for a while. And then I had, you know, reconnected to it again. And that's what kind of made me be like, I almost felt like not, I didn't have a choice. But like in my head I was like, this is the next thing. Like I have to do this for me. And if look, if I do this and they really hate it, well, you know, it was more about me cultivating the fan base that, that love that and that love what I do and are OK with me being a silly goose and also OK with me sharing, you know, like my deep feelings and things like that. That's got to be one of the most validating things because you see it all the time. Like people will say, oh, so and so fell off or so and so whatever.

19:33 Anytime they kind of like veer into territory that's unfamiliar to the fan. And so it just really proves that you have like those true fans that are willing to ride with you through iterations of your career. And I that's what I always preach. It's like when you're building your brand and your brand just really means who you are and finding a way to communicate who who you are in a digestible way. It doesn't mean putting on airs or changing yourself like that's what you need to go for. Not not scattershot, gaining as many fans as possible. It's the ones who are going to be there because we're humans, we're malleable and we change. Yeah. And I think that is sometimes the biggest problem for people because, well, artists, they do things because they're like, OK, this gets me more bookings or it's the quicker way or I can get, you know, some quick followers and fans and all the rest. And it works for the first two years, three years. But then they then get stuck in a spot and, and growing from there is really tough or maintaining from there is really tough.

20:39 And you see it with people, you know, whether it's a music side of thing or whether it's a branding and social media side of thing. Like I see it a lot with these people who do it with social media and you see them being like, oh, this is kind of like the the quick like and the quick grab. Yeah, which look, don't get me wrong, like that. There's use for that as well. But they jump, you know, they kind of like, OK, this is like, great. And then they get to a point where they literally, it looks to me, it looks so anxiety inducing because they're, they're chasing that kind of thing that they've kind of blown up for, but it doesn't have the longevity. And I think it takes a lot to, you know, kind of do it in a way that's maintainable.

21:21 And I think some of the most successful or, you know, some of the biggest names that at least I aspire to be like are the ones that they've, it's been a maybe a longer journey, but one that like doesn't disappear in, you know, a year or two. You know, they can keep creating and keep being true to themselves. And if anything, it continues to get easier for them because they're, you know, more sure of themselves and have built a fan base that are, you know, open to their own creativity. Yeah, yeah, whenever I see a profile and it's like it's obvious that all of their content is just like a play out trying to go viral.

22:01 It's like it's like you do not have any personality. Like that's what I assume. It's really like those people do not have actual personalities. They're like chronically online. Like that's just, it's just so fleeting. Like virality doesn't fill shows. It's never a guarantee like like that. That essay that I referred to earlier, 1000 true fans like talks about that. And if you can build 1000 true fans that will. There's his name is Kevin Kelly. He wrote this essay and he's like, if you can get 1000 people to give you a day's wages, let's say $100 a year, that's a sustainable income going viral. That's never like, that's not going to sell your merch. You know they're not going to buy your tickets, but it's just a trap that so many people fall in. Yeah, and and I do see some of those people to like, say, for example, like there might be some artists that are bigger than me, but when I look at sort of the things they have to do to keep up with it, I'm like, I would, it's more sustainable. And you know, for me to be at this point doing it the way I'm doing it, then, you know, like being there, trying to chase it, the amount of money, energy, and just like, I don't know, soul that kind of gets taken in order to keep up with that, you know, it's kind of like, is it all really worth it in the end? So.

23:30 And I think that's an equation every artist, every person has to determine for themselves. Like what what is sustainable and what do you want out of life outside of touring and being an artist? Because like, you have your whole family in Australia and you spend you spend a considerable amount of time then, well, at least in the past year, you were there because your your sister had a baby, was like the cutest baby I've ever seen. It's ridiculous you posted that on on social. I'm I always get excited when I see see her in your stories. But like those are, I'm assuming, important factors to you when you're deciding, like how often am I going to tour? What's just what's my life going to look like?

24:11 Outside of this and look, I will say like at the moment, and, and I don't know if it's I don't know, it does have a little bit to do with like the way the world is as well. But you know, I'm travelling a lot, I'm touring a lot, but I'm also getting I am getting better at prioritizing time off, but I'm also like focusing on trying to be in the moment as much as I can no matter where I am. So even if I'm travelling like even today I caught the train and I was sitting on the train and just kind of like people watching and seeing the sunset and I was like, I'm in Chicago. And this is like, you know, like just trying to like be in the moment as much as I can because, you know, I was going through a period where I'm like, you know, I'm, I'm grinding and I'm like, you know, I'm playing shows and I'm doing this and all that sort of stuff.

24:58 And I feel like I wasn't enjoying it because I was just so like head down and trying so hard and all this sort of stuff. And I got to a point where I'm like, well, what's the point if you're not really there enjoying it, You know, And don't get me wrong, like you can't love it every single day, but you also need to see, you know, like obviously everyone has an end goal in mind, but the end goal will always move. You know, it will continue moving. As soon as you get there, you're already focusing on the next thing. So kind of focusing on enjoying it and prioritizing, you know, how you want your life to look is I don't know, I think it's super important. But yeah, I think that gets lost a lot.

25:41 This this is like a dream career for so many people. And I feel like a lot of people like, because it can get so overwhelming and taxing mentally, physically, all the touring, like the alternative is what, going to work in an office where you hate your life and someone else rules your time and whatever. That's the perspective I try to keep. Like, you know, I had a week, one of those weeks where it was like just all my meetings were kind of at random times. I never really had like, enough time to get in the flow state with anything. And like, it was just like a look, I had an annoying week. Yeah. And I was like, hold on. I'm living like a dream. Like I get to work for myself and, you know, and I also have the power to like do things differently. So I need to quit my and just like, you know what I mean? Like I had, yeah, I had, I had my own little like moment today where I was like, I need to practice what I preach. Like my, my week was this way because I made it that way. So.

26:38 Yeah, it's it's sometimes it's a little hard for me because I will say, and this it's a bit of a generalization, but I think, you know, it, it has a lot of weight. A lot of Aussies have a very like high quality of life and their day-to-day life is like pretty awesome. And so sometimes like I understand like it's a little bit different in every context, I guess. But like, say, for example, in Australia, like, you know, I'm, I still have all my friends over there, all my best friends, like a lot of them have 9 to fives or somewhat standard jobs.

27:19 And a lot of them are very happy with that. So it is on the one hand, it's like, obviously there's plenty of people that, that don't love their jobs, but I know they're like, say, for example, one of my friends just went there and she was like, oh, like everyone's out at the beach at like 7:00 AM in the morning. I'm like, yeah, like, you know, a lot of people go to the beach before they go to work, you know, and having that sort of lifestyle for a lot of Aussies sometimes makes it a little less appealing to like, kind of go out and be like, Oh my gosh, like life is crazy and all that sort of stuff. But in saying that, like, I think there's a bit of a bell curve to it because, you know, when you're trying to when you're just starting out and you're trying to like just get there wherever there is, but you know, you're trying to establish yourself.

28:06 There is so much, there's so much work, there's so little support. There is no money. And it's so exhausting. You know, so you're in this point where you're like, you want to be so grateful for it, but you're exhausted and you're trying so hard and you're not getting any recognition and you feel like you're trying everything in the world is against you. And you like, I definitely had a lot of moments then when I was like, I could just be sitting somewhere being told what to do, getting the same income every week and knowing that I can pay my bills and all that sort of stuff. And it's really hard because I know a lot of people don't get through that point. Once you start, there's definitely tipping points where once you get through a certain.

28:51 For me, it was really just like, can I pay my rent? And once I got to that point, it became so much more like, this is awesome. Like, you know, like I am living the dream. And even if I am tired. And again, we have times where you're not as grateful for it, but you know, you have those moments where you're like, I'm, I'm literally living the dream. Like where am I? I'm on stage or I'm, you know, in a writing session here or I'm flying here, or even the moments where I get like a day or two off and you're like, oh, I'm in Europe, you know, with, you know, my cousin and my friend and we're, you know, walking around Tomorrowland because I'm playing this festival or, you know, like those moments. And I think like it is really tough because a lot of the people starting out you, you are working so hard and you're not really getting anything for it, but. Well, that's where a lot of people quit. Exactly.

29:43 That's the thing you have to push through. Like if you can push through that, you're almost guaranteed to find success on the other side because and so few people do. Exactly. And the success might look a little different than you thought. You know, it might not necessarily be how you first envisioned it. But yeah, if you push through it, like, you'll get there and be creative with it. You know, some people are like, unless it looks this way then, right. You know, like I know a lot of people especially like when they're a bit younger and less established even in their life, they're like, well, I have to like live out of home and do this and do that. And then I'm like, OK, then you've got to get second and third jobs. I'm not saying obviously you can still do it that way, but there are some people who, you know, they're so young and they can still be living at home. And I'm like, you're trying to make it as an artist, which is so expensive, so taxing, and your home life is great. You get on with your parents so well. I'm like, yeah, that's for an extra year if you can. You know, like for sure.

30:41 Whatever helps, you know, and that's people. I, I, I noticed that maybe it's like a cultural thing here in America. People are like a bit ashamed to be like, Oh well, I live with my parents. I'm like, do it like that's great. You know, like that's. Is that in Australia? Do people? Stay without parents for ages. That's so I, I realize I have and I have immigrant, my father's an immigrant from Sicily and it's the same. They all live like in the same building like generations like they have, they have different floors of a flat, whatever. But I do realize that when it comes to business, and it's because when my content starts reaching international crowds like, oh, this, this is so American. I'm like, I am, I am. I have that hustle culture like like grind till you die like mindset.

31:24 But like unfortunately that is what has been instilled in US and now I don't know any other way. Parent. I feel like it's even more so because it's like. Yes, because he was like, you got to be. Why didn't you get an A, you know, so it and and he's an entrepreneur too, like he made it. So that was my inspiration. But like now I don't know. Have you assimilated to like American culture in any way? When did you when? When did you move to I? Lived I kind of briefly moved January 2020 but obviously COVID. You know. Oh, right. Upside down, yeah, but it was June 2021, so it's coming up on five years. Like, no, I wouldn't say.

32:06 Like, it's not that I'm not meaning to. It's just like I feel like visiting here versus living here is so different. Every city is so culturally different too. So I feel like I'm, I'm understanding it deeper and deeper. I wouldn't say that I'm necessary. Well, I'm not not assimilating. It's not that I'm not trying to or anything. It's just sort of understanding and learning things. I'm definitely getting a deeper understand understanding for like American culture. What was the biggest culture shock that. When you say thank you, people go that that was the big.

32:47 What else he's supposed to say? Like, you're welcome, OK? Like I always felt like someone was mad at me. That's so funny. No, probably, I think the biggest culture shock there was probably a few and like I moved to LA. So you know that that has its own culture in itself, you know, But I think I think the biggest thing, I don't know, like there's probably two things, two different things, and I'm going to say them both because one's a negative and one's a positive. And I, I don't, you know, I don't love like going crazy negative on things, but you know, it was something to point out. I think like when I first moved, I, I noticed how much like, I guess like fear and, and again, I was living in LA very much in the thick of it, how much like fear and agitation there was.

33:39 And a bit of like I got to look after myself because no one else is going to look after me, which there's respect in that because you know, you do. I come from Australia. And again, over generalisation, depends where you live and all that, but it's a very different feeling. It's like if I fell over on the street, I know someone would come and help me. This is. Such a hyper individualistic country. And I, I, I didn't understand it at first. Now I understand why it's like that. So it has a bit of a different feeling for me now than when I first got here. Now I, I have a deeper understanding of why it's like that. Whereas when I first came over, I was like, Oh my God, no one gives a about each other and all this sort of stuff.

34:21 Now I'm, I'm a bit more like, OK, I understand where it comes from and why and, and all of that sort of stuff. So I think that was a bit of a culture shock for me at the start. And then the other thing was just like how, and this is like, I guess more the, the positive side of things is like how big America is. Like it is the amount of people like even size wise, like Australia is almost as big as America. Not quite but it's almost as big. But the amount of people in America is crazy cause in. Australia, you just all live in one little. Party, we all live just on the beaches, right?

35:01 And then the end, then they just, yeah, like a few people on the inside. Yeah, like wilderness. Like, yeah. There's a lot of like, you know, Bush and, and wilderness and like Australian desert and things like that. But I think like seeing how many people here, how big it is and how much opportunity there is here, like you can be doing the most niche thing like and only have like 1% of that market. And you can have like a long, successful, lucrative career, even if you've just got this like one tiny dot in the market, you know? And I think again, like, that's where America can be like the land of opportunity. You know, I think a lot of people get bogged down in how how tough things are.

35:47 And don't get me wrong, things are tough and can be tough and, and all of that, but there's so many opportunities that you can that are here that present themselves here that you you can't get in other places around the world. You know, there's so many things that I've done here or I've experienced here or even seen here that I'm like, this just wouldn't exist and can't exist in Australia, for example. Well, I think that's like just proof that they're like things themselves are neutral and they always have a positive and negative to it. There's some you know that the opportunity or like what you just described isn't inherently good or bad, but it comes with. Both sides. And it even goes into that kind of cultural side of things too, because culturally there is so there's so many different micro cultures within not only within America, but in within each city, you know, you can find your people and your niche and your thing, you know, somewhere here, you know, you might have to travel a little bit to find it sometimes.

36:46 But like there is so many people that you can find people that are into and interested in what you are as well. Which I think is like tying it back in and wrapping a ball on this with the branding thing. Artists who are like trying to be for everybody. Oh, let me just make viral content. Why do that when there's probably a whole group of people out there who are into the same weird you are? And not saying anime is weird, but that's the first thing that came into my what if it's anime and house music? What if it's plants and and base? You know what I'm saying? Like there's so many opportunities to find a community. And yeah, well, I could talk to you about this forever, but we do have a a reservation to make.

37:29 We do. Yeah, I know. I wish I got here earlier but. Well, you came in on a lime scooter, which I'm so like, I think you're you definitely are the only person who's ever done that. So that's it was. Throttle down. The whole time I was just like, in Chicago, I can just like. Incredible. Yell that I'm coming and people will just amazing dodge out of the way I. Guess yeah, I got to make you like an award for that you can put with the rest of your fan like memorabilia. Yeah, I'm taking a Lime scooter. It'll be. Yeah, I couldn't take any video as well as on there, but it happened. So yeah, you saw me. So I did. Thank you. Thank you so much.