TikTok Is Changing How DJs Make Music (feat. Archie Hamilton) | EF EP 144

0:00 Building a career with real longevity and dance music means making sacrifices most people never see. Moving back home at 26, choosing music over stability, spending the majority of your life in airports and hotel rooms, and somewhere in the middle of it all, figuring out what actually makes it sustainable. I called her up and I was like, I don't know what to do because my job's telling me you need to make a choice here. And she was like, move home, come and come and do you love your music? Without her doing that and and pushing me definitely wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now. Do not leave home. Just just minimize your costs and focus everything into doing your music. But the grind only gets you so far. After years on the road, what keeps you grounded matters just as much as the music itself.

0:46 I walk in the door and it's like funny little pairs of shoes lined up and stuff like that. It's just like, and I get home and if that's, that's like my rock and my foundation, you've got to have the right person. 9 out of 10 other people that I know are single or divorced. And it's, it's a lonely life. It can be a really lonely life, life, you know, And if you don't, if you don't have that at home, then yeah, can be, can be super lonely. And the reality of the lifestyle. I think people just assume that it's like just glitz and glamour the whole time. But the the reality is, is that 90% of your time I spent driving, I literally ran into my hotel room, burned my mouth on a coffee. Like showered really quickly and then like sprinted here. Today I'm sitting down with Archie Hamilton and we're getting into all of it.

1:30 What it actually takes to build a lasting career, what he wishes he knew sooner, and why, after all these years, he's just now hitting his creative stride. This episode is sponsored by LILO, where culture drops first. You just posted recently that you opened your home studio. You needed like a creative reset. What needed to be reset?

2:38 Yeah, I, I didn't know I did until I did it. Basically what needs to be reset. I, so I, I had a studio at home until about 2022 and then I, I thought I'm going to like get a proper studio and like really build it out. And so I did that and I moved into a place in, in East London in Hackney called Nettle House, which is a really cool spot. Lots of people have studios there. Jamie Jones has a studio there and a bunch of other cool, cool artists. And it was great. But it was 1/2 an hour trip from my house and I was sharing with somebody. So with my schedule and IT and it was just difficult to work there because it was like there was a couple of barriers in between. So I didn't, it was a great space, but I didn't get as much time in there as I would have liked to have done. And then I gave that up at the end of 24 and I started working from a studio in West London, which is a sick studio, don't get me wrong, but it's an hour away from my house. And because it wasn't mine, I was having to book sessions like a month in advance.

3:47 And so I was maybe getting two or three days a month in that Max, right? That's crazy. It's not enough. And like when I get there, there's just so much pressure to get something finished or I just had like a laundry list of stuff I had to get done in every session. And it just, you know, it was fine, but I just don't feel like I was that creative. Then you Fast forward to January this year, we met myself, my wife and my daughter. We left London, we moved down to the coast, which is so beautiful and what you get for your money outside of London in the UK is just crazy. So now I've got, you know, space and I built a studio in the attic of the house. I'm in there six hours a day every day now. And it's just like you can, you can afford the time to just try out new things, practice stuff, try a bunch of different sounds and you know, music production or any kind of musical creative activities, like it's like training a muscle, right. So it's like I'm in there training everyday and so just my creative output is just flying now. So yeah, I'm loving it.

4:53 Wow, everyone eventually leaves the city and flocks for the outskirts, don't they? I think also, you know, you've got when you tour and you've got a crazy life every weekend. All I want is a bit of peace and quiet. And where I was living in Hackney was like very cool. But it's, it's heavy and full on and the energy's really heavy and I just want to go and get home and just breathe clean air and just, you know, relax, which is, and, and that's, that's what I've got now, which is lovely. It makes so much sense. Yeah. Will Clark, he was on the podcast recently and he was telling me about his estate that he lives on as far as his parents, which is so cool.

5:34 I imagine you need that reprieve after touring. I wonder. My husband and I always talk about when is that moment going to be for us? But I just, I love being able to walk wherever I need to go. And I don't know if I can give that up yet. Yeah, sure. But I'm sure we'll reach the point. I think not everyone does. But you know when you do, you know, and it's the time and you do it. And it's just like, how on earth did I not do this before? Yeah. You know, well, especially you have what, one child? Well, I've got one on the way. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. So I've got I've got a 2 1/2 year old and another one that's due in middle of June. Amazing. Yeah, Josh just told me on the podcast that you were like one of the first people he called.

6:16 Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were having dinner in San Diego maybe, or Denver, I think it was. And I think I just had mine. And he was like, I haven't told anyone yet, but yeah, yeah. So that's amazing. I'm going to ask you the same thing. I asked him. Did having your first child change anything in the studio for you in terms of what emotions you were evoking or the music that you made? New life experiences that translated sonically? I mean, definitely my daughter was born at a really challenging time of my life because my basically my mother was, was sick. She, she had, she passed away from Alzheimer's and she, my daughter was born in September and my mother passed away in the following June.

7:03 So I was like suddenly a dad, but also dealing with my mother's like, you know, my mum was dying. And I thought that just completely like pulled the rug from, from under me, you know, and I had to, you know, it, that that was, it was a really challenging time And, and it totally changed my, my, my outlook on life, you know, for the best in a way. I guess, I mean, like, obviously losing it. My mum was like my #1 supporter and like, she was, she was a raver. So she got me into the music and she, she was the one who encouraged me to like leave my job and stuff like that. So she literally my daughter is just identical to my mum, looks just like her, has all of her mannerisms.

7:49 And so like, that's amazing because I sort of she lives through my mum. My mum lives through her rather. How did it change me musically? I don't know. It really gave me some, it gave me focus because, you know, I've, I've been touring for, for 16 years, I think it is. And it's just been a wild, wild ride from like day one. And I think when my daughter was born, suddenly everything just comes into focus, you know, a little bit more. And especially everything else was going on on around it. And it just really gave me, I think it just gave me clarity about what I wanted from, from everything. And also just like it makes you toughen up super quick. So I think you just stop caring about anything about what people say or what people think, which is really, really helpful.

8:37 And I think I've really suffered from overthinking, you know, my whole probably my whole life, not my whole career, but like, you know, worrying about what people think, whatever that just for me, it just went. And I don't know if that I think it probably did affect my music. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that the life is such a fast life, the touring life of an artist and to experience the circle of life in the middle of all of that, losing family and bringing new life into the world feel like it just really like you said, it puts everything in perspective and you zoom in on the moment and you realize how fast things go by.

9:18 I mean, the years just start, the older you get, the years just start to fly past you and you lay in bed every night and you're like, how did another how did another month just pass? Like how are we three months into into the year already? It's mad. And I think that's probably one of the darker parts of being an artist, because you have to show up and perform and do your job when you have all this real life stuff going on. Got to put your show face on, you know, Yeah, yeah. Which is, do you know what it's quite, It's in a way it's quite good because it, like, it forces you because look, you know, grief is grief. And also like, I don't know what the opposite of grief is, but when you, you know, have a child or whatever.

10:00 Yeah, love. Love, yeah. But like, it just time's the only thing that heals these things. And this kind of like you turn you having to show up every weekend and be Mr. Party Man really speeds up that grief process because you're like, just get on with it, you know? And your mom being a raver like, this is what she wanted for you, it sounds like, which is insane. Like, it's very rare, you know, that an artist gets the mom that pushes them out of the office job. So was her faith in you, like, really the impetus for like, OK, I can take this leap. I can. Literally I called her up and I was like, I don't know what to do because they're like my job's telling me you need to make a choice here. And she was like your job, move home, come and come and do me love you music.

10:44 She wanted to be a photographer and she and she didn't follow her dream and she's like the one thing she always wanted was like, you've got you just give it a shot, give it a go. Come and live at home. You don't have to pay rent. I ended up living at home when I was like 26 for like 6 years. Like, which is there's nothing wrong with that at all, but it's not what, not where I thought my life was going at that point, you know? But so yeah, without her doing that and and pushing me definitely wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now. I love that, it's so amazing. I had a a bass artist named Sippy on on the show last weekend and she's Australian. And she said it's so weird that American culture, like, shames you for living at home with your parents. She said Aussies live with their parents like they they couldn't fathom leaving if there wasn't a good reason to. And like, there's no reason to struggle if you don't have to. And I think there is like, I don't know how it is in the UK, but in in the States, there is a big culture of shame around living at home.

11:39 And yeah, and it's like, but if you can, if you are get out, get along with your family, why would you not take it advantage of that to pursue? Whenever I talk to like young artists who were like, you know, what advice would you give? I'm like, do not leave home. Just just minimize your costs and focus everything into doing your music. Don't like move out for the sake of moving out. And then you have to have a job to pay your rent and then you've got less time to make music and then. Because there's so many investments that like, if you can save that money and invest in your career, right? Like get outside help in terms of whether it's social media or videographer, like whatever, like use that. Go on trips, go to Sonar, go to AE, you know, network, all those sort of things which cost a lot of money.

12:23 Cost so much money. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. We're I'm building a music conference here in Chicago. I have a a partner. We've done it for two years and that's always something that's top of mind for us is what is, you know, the cost, But we make sure that you get the value out of it because we know the artists struggle, but those things can be really transformative for your career. The networking personally super transformative like like was. Did you go to Ade or anything in the early days? So I, I, I, I had like a corporate job for a bit and, and during that period, like I had, you know, I was earning not loads of money, but enough money to be able to like, allow me to go to your sonars, your AD ES and that kind of thing. And that was just like amazing because it was the same time I was making music.

13:10 And so people are, Oh, you're actually nice to meet you. This is so insane. No, no, no. And and then that led to me when I quit, when I eventually quit my job in the end of 2013 and I went to Betha for the summer, I already knew half the people I needed to know, you know? It's huge. And which is huge. And that just meant like that just removed so much friction from getting into it. And like this whenever like young, young artists come up and, and talk to me at events and stuff like that and say like, oh, you know, what advice would you give them? Like, well, my number one piece of ice, you're doing it right now is go out and meet people and like, just introduce yourself and like get your face known. That's so important because it's such a people business. This isn't it So.

13:50 No, it's important and I know it's hard because the industry is full of introverts. Like a lot of artists tend to be introverts. I'm an introvert and it is weird. It is uncomfortable to put yourself out there, but that exposure therapy is so important just for any like, like it's just a good life skill to have. Absolutely, 100%. So you've been doing this 15 plus years, You've seen a lot of changes in the industry. The ones who survive are the ones who can adapt. What do you think has been the most jarring change that you've seen if in your 15 years of doing this professionally? I think the the sort of for me, like the TikTok revolution was really interesting. I think the best, the best, there's like an Instagram page that you know, that Marco Cariola. Oh yeah, that just shines a really nice light on how ridiculous some elements of the industry have got, I think. But at the same time, that TikTok social media culture thing has also brought up like really good quality underground music.

14:56 Like, I mean, you look at people like Chris Dussie Rossi, people like that. Now the ghost, Hamish and Toby who these guys play serious music and which ordinarily would be confined to the depths of the underground and like real diggers and nerds. But now this is like totally brought everything to the surface and now suddenly kids are like directly exposed to really good quality stuff if they want to be. That's not really the most jarring thing. I don't know what the most jarring thing is. I, I just, I, for me, I came up in an era where being a great DJ and a great producer was pretty much all you needed to be. I totally understand.

15:37 I'm not not like going to sit here and go, Oh, Boo Hoo. You know, I get it. With times evolved and stuff like that, I think, I guess short answer to your question, the most jarring thing is how certain elements of the scene now become. It's more about attention seeking than it is about music, you know what I mean? And like I said, I think that Marco Cariola thing shines a really nice light on that. And hopefully, you know, people will be like, actually, maybe not. Yeah. Can I be honest, sometimes when I see that account, I have an adverse reaction, maybe because it's a little mean spirited, But I understand that that role, whoever runs that account plays. It's like a whistleblower.

16:22 You know what I mean? Like, like whistleblowers are necessary in every industry. You know, like you said, you can't fault some of the people who have like gotten famous off TikTok. What are you going to say? Oh, no, let me go on the back of the line because you know they're not. They're going to take advantage. So it's two different things. That's for me, that's, that's like show business. And then there's music. It's two very different things. And I I totally agree it is pretty mean spirited, but I just I hope that the show business aspect doesn't start to. Lead. Into the quality side of things, you know what I mean? Yeah, and it's all about like, I know that some artists hate this word brand, but everyone has a brand.

17:09 It's it's what it's what people know you for, right. Like people like my personal brand of my personal life is people know I love Addams Family and Chihuahuas. You know, that's my brand. It's like I'm kind of spooky. I have little mean, you know, ankle biter dogs, Like that's that's my thing. But some of those, like some people, some people really run with that term brand, right? And then they get into the show business territory that you're talking about. And I, I think it's, it was pretty inevitable. What like with this scene not being so underground anymore, that's inevitably going to happen. And what we what like and what you were saying on on the social media side too, with it elevating so much good music. The slop comes with it.

17:55 You can't you. Can't take the rough with this move. Right. And so I think just what's really important is is and and where do you put the responsibility on the fans to have good taste? Like how do we ensure? You can't. You can't. I just, I think it's important for artists who want to stand for quality not to just take shortcuts. I think that's that's one thing. I think also another slightly jarring thing about it is the what it actually does to like the way people make music because it's like it feels like feels like the tails wagging the dog in that you like when you go when when I when I when I go to make a record, I make the club record first, right? 6567 minutes long.

18:45 But now it feels like don't you just don't even do that. You you have to make a short thing with a, with a, with a bang straight into the hook version for TikTok, which is I get, but that shouldn't be what you know, that shouldn't be what leads you to in making music. It should just be your inspiration and you should just make records. That for me is a little bit. I think that's a shame. It is. And that's like, it's not Just Dance music anymore. It's all genres. Like my, my Pilates instructor said yesterday, she was like, guys, I, I made a, a throwback playlist saying it was so easy because all these old songs are like 5-6 minutes long and we're talking like Top 40 rock, whatever.

19:34 And she's like all the songs of today, I've got to add double the amount because they're so short. And that actually matters her 'cause she has to time the music with like the class. And she's like, it's a pain in the to, to work with the music of, of today. It takes more time. So it is a shame. But like, I understood like what you were saying. I understand. Why have you? I think I read when I was doing some research on you, did you say that you you create different records for different rooms? Yeah, I mean, I, I, I started off making, well, I've just always made music that I was inspired by. And I started going out in London, you know, as a, as a, you know, late in my late teens and the sound of the time was like Electro and break beat.

20:19 And I started by listening to jungle. I never, I've made some jungle, but I've always really just made house music and every kind of iteration thereof. But I kind of I started making more like Electro inspired break BT stuff. And then when I started going to fuse in Brick Lane when it in in in East London, I was that I went super stripped back, very minimal. And I'd I'd been to some waves and I was just like totally inspired by that. And then then I started playing for Fuse and Fuse then moved to village underground, which is a much bigger room. It's like more of a warehouse room. And so by, you know, just naturally this, the sound toughened up and that then toughened up my sound. But I think for me now, I think or, or maybe probably always really, I, I, I just, I go into a studio session with an idea to make one thing and something completely different will come out.

21:13 And whether it's like garagee or, or minimal or tech house or whatever. I think I'm just, I'm just, I'm always inspired by my, by my like reference points and my, my, well, my inspirations, you know? And experience by the longer you're exactly the longer you're in this. Exactly. That's it. So I like making all different kinds of music and, and it's really nice because it's like every different room you've play, you've got something different to play for that room. Do you feel like you have more creative license now because you've been around for so long, or have you always felt that way? A definitely more creative license. I feel like I, I feel, you know, like I said before about not really caring anymore, you know, so I just don't care anymore.

21:57 I just make whatever comes out and, and sometimes I'll make it and the next time I wake up and I'll be like, that's awful. Or, you know, other times I'm like, that's really interesting. But yeah, definitely having, having the confidence in yourself as an artist and then like, and having the ability to like, sometimes you, I just sit there and I'm like, this is so weird. I'm not actually making this music. Whatever's like something's doing. Coming through, Yeah, yeah. And being able to like, unblock yourself and let that happen's really, really special. That flow, yeah, that's like the flow state is the best feeling in the world for any creative. For me, I don't write as much as I used to, but I, I used to be ATV reporter and I've done all different forms of journalism.

22:40 Now it's more video. And I do feel like sometimes I get into the into a flow with my questions too. But yeah, I miss that. I missed when, oddly, I used to get it when I would write essays for school. You know, I loved writing an essay, which is strange. I hated that I can't do a basic long division to save my life, but I can do, you know, I can write essays. And yeah, it is flow state is like, I wish that for every creative, you know, because it's, it's not always easy. No, absolutely not. No, once you're in it, once you're in it also like just don't get off the wave if it's coming, just don't like shut up. Just cancel everything.

23:20 Just go Yep, because you might not get it again for a couple of weeks, you know? Yeah, 100%. So we talked a little bit about your family earlier, but for artists listening to this who you know, I mean, I think a lot of DJs are single. I think let's say like a lot of especially young artists, I think a lot of young people are single now anyway. And I know people in my life right now who are struggling with, like, when's the right time to bring a significant other into my life? Because my career is just taking off and like, I'm never going to be home or whatever. But I've been seeing more artists, like, actually talk about how having a family is just unlocked new levels of their artistry. What can you tell them? What advice can?

24:02 You give them, I mean, I can, I can tell you from, from my experience, like having that solid base and foundation at home, like when you travel and like you're obviously going around the world and it's exhausting and crazy parties and whatever. And you get home and you walk in the door like I walk in the door and it's like tiny little pairs of shoes lined up and stuff like that. It's just like I get home and if that's that's like my rock and my foundation. But I would say if you're starting out, committing to a relationship is like if you don't have the right person backing you and on your side. And I prior to my wife, my, my slag on TV, but my ex-girlfriend was not the right person. And it was really, really difficult. Like, like having someone who didn't believe in me and, and didn't push me and whatever.

24:55 But yeah, I mean, I would basically say for if you're coming up now, just get your foundation of your career locked in. And, and, and then also then it gives people, it sets expectations for a partner. Because I think the other thing is like start. I mean, I'm, I'm was really lucky because when I met my my wife, I was just starting touring really. And so she's been with me since probably playing like 2-3 gigs a month to now, you know, whatever, you know, bit to being crazy busy and I'm really lucky that she's like followed me through that evolution. I think if you're with somebody who and, and they, you're, you're starting in the bedroom and suddenly like you blow up and you'll never, never at home.

25:40 That must be really difficult for sure. So I think it's, yeah, I think it's really important to like, definitely set up your foundations first and then just definitely like if there's any doubt, you know, you've got to have the right person. Totally, but being married is the best, isn't? It. Yeah, absolutely. I, I, I hope that like, not to like, you know, get out my soapbox, but like, I hope young minds like change their opinions about that now because it's amazing what having a supportive person who's always in your corner can do. It's life, it's life changing. My husband and I started our businesses like around the same time, which was really lucky because like you were saying, like if you go from bedroom to suddenly blowing up and the person you're with has like a solid 9 to 5, like like we got lucky where we both like took the leap and got, you know, into super risky, you know, like live we.

26:35 Need together. Though, Yeah. And it's been awesome. That's awesome. It's awesome, yeah. I mean, I think like it's interesting. I'm very I'm very out of touch with dating in the scene, you know, because I have I've been with the same person now for for nine years. But just from experience it like having DJ friends. I'm like, dude, like it's the move. You know, absolutely, yeah, it's tough though. You know, when you're like that busy and and if you're like a top tier one DJ or whatever, how the hell are you going to meet somebody who's going to put up with that lifestyle? You know what I mean? Like like it's it's tough. It's really tough. So, you know, I think it's there's I was, I was, I think I was actually having this conversation with my wife the other day.

27:16 It's like I'm so lucky to, to have like a family and to have this in the position that I'm in, you know, in, in music and, and all that kind of thing. Because 9 out of 10 other people that I know are single or divorced or, you know, and it's, it's a lonely life. It can be a really lonely life, you know, And if you don't, if you don't have that at home, then yeah, can be, can be super lonely. So yeah. Yeah, you're, you're a big fitness guy too. Are you like running? I'm not, I don't I I, I'm not a huge runner. Did I see you did some sort of running interview or am I making? That was with yeah, yeah, that was with Theo Cortis. OK, so you don't like running?

28:00 I hate running. I'm I'm into my fitness. I can't run. I've got like this, this. I've got a back injury basically, but I I tried to get I have to use I'm on the elliptical now. Yeah, it's like low impact. Yeah, so. Super embarrassing, but yeah. But yeah, I'm into, I'm into my. Foot, but you're but you're moving like that's that's the most important thing, yeah. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. Because sitting on plain salt. And that's why, that's why my back's like, so bad, because I'm just sound, you know, sound. Hazard of the job, Yeah. Yeah, totally. I didn't think about that. Yeah. And I, yeah, I think it was like I originally did it because I used, I was when I did my beat this season in 2014, I was like playing like 10-11 hour sets at Villa parties, but like on a really low table like Bent.

28:40 How tall are you? 62 What do you. Do here, yeah, 6 two yeah, yeah, I feel for the. Tall DJs over. I remember someone coming up to me and being like, dude, you're going to ruin your back if you kept on. I was like, Nah, I'm. Fine, yeah. Oh, I will get it now. Is there. So what's in your opinion, what's something that people over romanticize about the job that's actually like kind of? I think people just have seen that it's like just blitz and glamour the whole time. But the reality is is that 90% of your time is spent travelling and the five, the remaining ten 5% is like eating or sleeping and then maybe 5% playing the gigs.

29:21 The 5% of gig time. If you've got if you're playing great gigs that you're that you're enjoying more than compensate for the rest of it. But I just think people don't take into consideration like what how brutal the travel schedule can be. You know, I mean, prime example today landed took me ages to get through the airport jumped and I thought, oh, great, I landed like 2:00, three hours till the interview. I've got loads of time. I can have something to eat. I can have it, you know, whatever. I literally ran into my hotel room, burn my mouth on a coffee, like showered really quickly and then like sprinted here. Well, thank you. Of course. Thank you for doing that. I know it is. It is like there's literally you can't plan for all the delays, the whatever, totally.

30:08 It's just never in your hands. You really have to get used to, like, you have to be more of a type B person, like go with the flow type person 'cause you can't control all the variables. Yeah. I would not succeed as an artist 'cause I, I would. If I could control the weather, I would be happy, You know, like I, I'm a control freak. You've also built businesses within this industry, no labels and things like that. What is that? Is that personally fulfilling? Because like a lot of artists like they, they want to gig, you know, aspiring artists, they want to gig, they want to perform, and that's kind of all they really think about. But what is doing that other stuff? What is that given to you? I mean, it's been amazing because I've, I've run a label of different labels for, I mean, well, my whole career.

30:56 So, but be your but before I really started touring, so like probably 17 years. And it's been amazing to, to give a platform for for other artists because so many people who've released on on my labels have gone on to do amazing, amazing things. And I'm not saying that releasing on my label was the reason why they did that, but seeing being part of that journey is really, really special for me. And I think also like, obviously you can, you can release, release your own music, but like having an imprint that you, it kind of cements a place in the history of, of music and releasing music and like the evolution of a sound. And that for me is like something I feel really proud of.

31:45 Like looking back at our catalog on, you know, very on various different imprints and being like, we really, we did some really cool stuff, you know. Yeah, and, and, and also looking at the artists release, I'm like, it's amazing to see what so and so's gone off to do. And then so yeah, I mean, look, it's, it's a challenge because like it's ever evolving, isn't it? And, and again, I feel, I feel very blessed to, to have been able to run those things for this long. So give what would your best tip be for longevity? An artist trying to build a career now what's? What's going to be sustainable? Yeah, I mean, I think it's probably quite cliche, but just being true to yourself and just doing, just being, just doing what you love because what what, what you love might come in and out. I mean, things move in cycles and trends come and go. And definitely following trends.

32:41 You could have a great successful two years if you jump on like a hype train. But nothing really lasts for longer than about two years. So I just think it's really important to, I mean, you can dip your toes into whatever the current trends are, but it's really important, I think to like have a very like recognisable sound that's yours and, and just just stick to it. Just be yourself. And I think also like with with regards to social media as well, getting your personality across is so important. It's something that I really struggle with because I'm an introvert too. But yeah, I just think like, be yourself and make sure people know who you are and what that is. That's probably the only real answer to longevity. And then I think probably on a more practical point, like not like spending all of your money being like smart with your money.

33:38 That's that's definitely one thing that I wish I'd been better at in in the early years. Oh yeah, were you were you buying like the flashy watches? No, no, no, no. Just like, you know, I wish I'd like, I wish I'd known more about like, I don't know, investing and stuff like that. Do you know what I mean? Like building? You have no idea. That is what I harp on the most on this show is like, even if you can only put a few dollars away into a Roth or like whatever it is, it's better than nothing. Exactly 100%. It's never too late to start either. Yeah, Josh and I were talking off camera about how just like we're, we're pretty like low key people like my, my car, my Honda, I've said this many times on the show, has duct tape on both mirrors and the bumper because some happened.

34:24 You know, one I got in a fight with a guy on a bicycle and he punched my mirror off the bumper was my fault. I duct taped them up and there's no need to go. I'm in the city. There's no need to, like, prove anything to anyone. Sometimes it's a little embarrassing if I am rolling up to, like, meet a client or something, but I get over it because it's like, that's not where, yeah, that's not where I need to spend my money. Yeah, you know, You know, Yeah, the money thing is so huge because it compounds over time. Compounds but also like you never know how long your runs going to be in this game. And if you spend and you commit your time to doing to doing this and you spend 10 years doing it and then suddenly like, I don't know, whatever you've and that kind of goes back to like not jumping on trends. Suddenly you're like fully committed to a trend and a sound and suddenly that sound becomes super unpopular anymore. Super unpopular and you're out the door and no one cares anymore.

35:18 Yep. And you've got nothing to show for it. And you spent 10 years out of the, the work economy and you've got no, you know, an empty spot on your CV for 10 years. You've so it's just so important to like, if you get a good shot at this and you're making good money, be smart with your money. So, so you can. And also like, there will come a time where you'll be like, I'm not getting on another flight and I, I never want to see an aeroplane again. And I just want to chill out and I don't want to get any planes anymore. And, and so to have something to then sit back on and go, OK, cool, we can reassess. Or, you know, if you're really lucky, just feel like I'll never have to work again. That'll be nice. I wish, you know, I probably, if I've been a bit smart with my money, I could very well have been in that position by now, you know?

36:02 Yeah, definitely not now. Well, I'm glad that you're here to kind of be the the sage for the artists that are coming up because it is really important and you just, I mean, the economy has been for the past couple of years going. To get worse. It is because costs never go back down. People think, oh, inflation, it's like, yeah, that's the new baseline. Things will never get cheaper than that again. You know, I mean, travel like eggs, whatever it is. But I like what you said too about the trend thing. And that's something I always talk about because there's so many niche, niche interests in this world. Like your tribe will find you. You just got to build your thing and people will eventually come. But if you are banking on this is viral right now. Yeah.

36:46 And. It will last forever. No, I feel very vindicated, not that I like preyed on her downfall, but that girl Bobby Altoff, I think you say it, She would. She was that podcaster That was like interviewing Drake interview. She like came out of nowhere right and I made a video. I was like talking about this exact topic. I was like, I don't foresee like that lasting very long. And these people are like, you're just mad because she's like a bigger. I'm like, no, I'm not. I just don't. And and she literally has fallen off the face of the earth. And, and again, I feel sorry for her because she actually just did an interview where she's like, I don't know why nobody like likes me anymore, but she was capitalizing on what was like popular in pop culture at that moment. And it never had any substance.

37:33 And it's just so fleeting. Everything is so fleeting. You've got to build a foundation. You. Know A. Foundation Foundation of like, you know, a catalog of really solid records that span all different sounds and, and, and yeah, if you're just banking on one thing, it ain't going to last. True. So before we jump off, let me know what what you're excited about this year. What are you looking forward to? Lowe's I've got. I've just like, you know, been churning out music. So I've got I've got a record coming out next Friday on Method. What's When's this coming out? Couple weeks there's got. A method out Sorry got a record out on March the 20th OK called Push Up On me with a a wicked little vocal from someone called Cecilia and then I've got a remix for Christy Cons coming out on Nervous. Amazing.

38:22 You've got a nervous coaster right there. I saw that. Yeah. Very on brand. Yeah. Big fans of them, Yeah. What else have I got then? I've got my first vinyl in years. Yeah, on a label from New York called Risk Reward, my friend Daniel Dutz's label. We just did the raw cuts in New York together. We play back-to-back together on it. Raw cuts such a fan of that. Isn't it so? And it's a real return to, I don't know what people kind of see sometimes YouTube comments. I prefer the old archeries. Bit of a return to the old Archer, you know. Blinding Lights was really cool too, by the way. It's on that tip. Thank you. Yes, that's really a fun.

39:03 This is this is what I'm doing again. I'm back into my like rolling acid tech house era, you know, very cool. The the method record is definitely more of a kind of crossover vibe. But the I'm right, I'm back into my rollers, my underground acid tech rollers. I'd love to see fully got the the the bug again. So yeah. Love it. Well, thank you for rushing here from the airport and spending some time.