The Uncomfortable Truth About Who's Really Winning in House Music | EF EP 113

0:00 People who have gone on to great success, who claim House in Chicago as a foundational to them, what have they done to come back and support the home of House?

0:54 Welcome to your weekly elevation. Your dose of real strategies for real results in dance music. I'm Olivia and today we are sitting down with someone who says what everyone else is thinking but they're afraid to voice. Chicago's house music queen DJ Lady D does not bite her tongue and that is exactly why you need to hear this conversation. She's calling out the uncomfortable truths about who's really getting rewarded in dance music, challenging artists to question what they're actually chasing, and asking the hard questions that most people won't touch. This is for anyone who's tired of surface level industry talk and ready for someone to say the quiet parts out loud. Lady DS Fearless perspective on legacy business and what it actually takes to build something meaningful. We'll give you a completely different lens on making it in this scene.

1:46 You don't bite your tongue when it comes to giving your when it comes to giving your takes. On a house. In the best way possible. So let's start with this. What is your most controversial take on the House music scene in 2025? Oh my God, people get mad at me and well, I've only I said this to one person and and he was really, really pissed off, but I said I said Chicago spends too much time focused on the past and these guys out here are lapping us. That's a really interesting take because you've been around for a lot of the history.

2:37 Yeah. And what I mean by that is that we have the world's best DJs. We are the birth place of house music. But the narrative has, I mean, we're getting the narrative back, but we lost it for a moment. And with all of this talent, only a few people are out there really seeing the world and getting the just and well deserved rewards. And by that I would say Green Velvet, you know, Derek Carter, Honey Dijon, where's everyone else?

3:21 You know, when you're looking at and I'm not even talking about these, you know, crazy top 100 DJs or anything like that, but the people who are really touring, really getting their comeuppance, you know, when you're talking about financially, you know, Cascades out there, but I don't even consider him house, even though he's from, you know, this area. John Summit, also a don't consider house. So, you know, and I'm not in anybody's bank account. You know, I'm just I'm just an observer like everyone else. You know, when I look at lineups, I would think Farley, Joe Smooth, E Smooth, Steve Hurley, you know, these founders, they should be up there at the top now I think, you know, Terry Hunter and Mike Dunn, they get out pretty regularly, but I don't think they they make the money that some of the other guys do that are in the top 100 list or the top 50 or even just say the top ten.

4:35 I don't know if they even come close to the top 100, you know, and in terms of the business that's being done and in this in this world, that is a skew to me now. I'm not faulting them. I'm saying the system is broken. When you said focus on the past, what do you mean by that? I think they spent a lot of time trying to figure out who created house, what the real story is there. Spent a lot of time wondering, you know, or trying to say like, oh, it wasn't Frankie Knuckles and this that.

5:15 And the third. It's not really important in the sense that that part is already that's in the folklore. So to to spend time trying to destroy the folklore for sake of truthful accuracy or some sort of accuracy. I mean, we all have our own truths. And so I don't know if that you'll ever get that. I don't know that that really even matters. I think that, you know, the main things are house comes from Chicago. There was a very instrumental club that people enjoyed and that culture that came out of that during that time is the stuff of legends and it had a lot of firsts. One of the things that Frankie Knuckles did was that he stayed relevant with the Underground and became that one of those first super DJs, but he always had a place to come back to in Chicago.

6:24 He always made sure that he did that when he was traveling. Some of the other guys were, I would say, became super producers and remixers, but they stopped sort of DJing and playing those other sets and having a club, a home base to come back to. Yeah. I mean, there's the difference between history and business. There's delineation there. And I know you've spoke, you've been part of documentaries to to talk about the history, but it doesn't necessarily move the business forward for the people who you're saying are the ones who deserve it, who have put in the time in the world. And so it's kind of like, it's like a distraction when we need to be looking forward.

7:09 I mean, you've been given titles, you know, Chicago's house music queen. You've won awards from Chicago Reader, best house music DJ in Chicago. How does one get that title if you can? Yeah, yourself up a little bit. Well, because I didn't give it to myself, you know what I mean? I was giving it to you. I think I just, you know, I opened up Chicago Magazine one day and it said it. And after that, it just kept following me around. And so it's more of a perception of how I represent Chicago when I'm out and about and the kinds of things that I do, spreading the legacy of house music, teaching young people how to DJ, organizations that I've worked with to keep house music in the lexicon.

8:00 And. And just I guess the way that I represent it, it's more. So I've always thought of myself as more of an ambassador of house and that, yeah, I do try to educate folks on it and make sure that they know, like, no, it's not, you know, all these other places that people, you know, claim as the birth place of house. So I think I've just been a vocal proponent of keeping our history alive, making sure our legacy is known and, and contributing to whatever archives I can to maintain the the story. That to make sure that there's tangible evidence as well as, you know, spoken and written pieces about, about this thing that you know, has touched so many people so deeply, has gone all over the world and has really, truly saved lives. So it's important to me, and I think that's what people feel. And so if they want to put a title on that, that's fine if that's what that represents to them, yeah. Yeah, that's pretty amazing.

9:08 I'm getting really sick of this word authenticity because I just. Don't say it. It's. I but it is, it's, it's in, it's in the ether. I think we should take it behind the barn and shoot it. But but it is, you know, for lack of a better term, authenticity is something that's thrown around so, so frequently today. How do you spot? As someone who's been in the game for as long as you have, how do you spot what is actually authentic now and what's just manufactured? Oh gosh, listen, I don't know that it anything has to be authentic. Like, I don't think that that's the hill that I'm going to die on.

9:52 Like, do you? If your authenticity is to create a character and to live through that character, then you as an artist have the right to do that. If you want to be horse girl, be horse girl. If you want to be Daft Punk, be Daft Punk. Are they any more different from each other just because I like 1's music more than the other? Not so. Not really. I mean, I guess you could say they didn't want to be seen and they just wanted people to focus on the music. I don't know if that was it, You know what I mean. I, I know that they came to Chicago, hung out with us for a bit and then went to, went on their merry way and kept making music.

10:43 I I know that they gave us some props in the beginning. I don't know that people are still, you know, and great contact with them or anything. I don't know if it was transactional. I'm not totally implying that. But people who have gone on to great success who claim House and Chicago as a foundational to them, what have they done to come back and support the home of House? I don't know. I mean, maybe they're doing stuff that I don't know about, and if they are, I'd love to know about it. Sounds like a like a friendly challenge. Well, you know, listen, OK Cascade, whose projects were like some of the 1st that I put out, he asked me one time, like, why don't you ever ask me to do something for you, You know, and I just thought, you know, well, I, I just figured if you wanted to do something for me, you would, you know, I don't know, you know what I mean?

11:45 Like, you know, you can call me up. You can find me. It's easier to find me than it is for me to find him or to get his number. But, you know, he asked me that maybe 10 years ago, and he's gotten even bigger since then. Come get some Lady D poetry and put it on your track. You know, what would that do for Lady D? It would be, you know, immense for Lady D So, and I'm not speaking about myself in the third person. I'm just saying that if you really want to do something for somebody, you can. And people shouldn't have to ask if you felt genuinely moved to do something or felt indebted to a person and had never really reciprocated. Like, oh, you started my career and I want to do something for you.

12:33 Wow, that's really interesting perspective. I don't often have people on the show who can say that they, you know, have that experience. I know you do a lot of mentoring. Is that something? Is that like a, a foundational principle that you want to pass on to the younger artist? What? What do you say to them? When I'm mentoring, I, I ask people, who are you doing it for and what are you doing it for? And I think whenever you answer that question honestly, it's going to help you be the become the thing that you truly want.

13:23 So if you really want fame and fortune, then you say that. If you're just doing art because you need to create art, then you say that and it really helps you understand what motivates you to do the things that you do so that you don't feel compelled to be out DJing in clubs. If really all you want to do is create and mix on Twitch, You know, not saying that you can't grow an audience and and blow up from that. You can, as we've all witnessed during COVID and you know, people were doing that all over the all over the world.

14:07 You can build a community anywhere and it doesn't have to be. But if you don't want to perform, say for others outside of your space, then you don't have to. There's nothing that says you have to do certain things. There's no blueprint to to this thing. There's no. So like, yeah, there are many Rd. maps have been written and you can write your own. You don't have to follow in anyone's steps. So I always just say just kind of be yourself and kind of figure out what it is that you want. I'm curious about this then. So making money full time off of your art is probably one of the most hotly debated topics on my page.

14:49 And and just what I see because, you know, people want to create just to create. But in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with wanting to support yourself full time from music, but that then requires maybe some things you don't want to do. Sometimes it could require compromising your vision, right? If a label doesn't want a certain arrangement and you do, what do you do in that situation? It also requires you putting in all of the admin work of a business owner. So where do you fall in that conversation on that spectrum of, you know, what do you have to do if you want to make music your full time thing and support yourself?

15:35 Yeah, that's a, that's a hard, a hard question because I think probably, and I don't know statistics really, but I would say probably less than 1% of DJs are out there making it full time as a DJ or a musician and supporting themselves. Well, right. So it may be there are levels to this, but I think you can, you can absolutely go for it and go out there and do that. And I did for a while and I did back and forth. I realized that there are times when I would say that the industry is very cyclical.

16:18 So like you can be really, really hot. I would say it's like a wheel of fortune. So when you're on this side of the wheel, things are coming up, coming up and like everything up here and up here is great. Everything on on the Downside is down, you know, So sometimes you're making a lot of money, sometimes you have a lot of gigs, sometimes you're doing a lot of travelling and touring and everything seems great. And then all of a sudden, and you're not hot and you don't know what to do during those periods. And you have to have, you know, all these austerity measures to just hold on. And sometimes you're borrowing money from friends or your bills are going unpaid. And that struggling artist part, you have to be comfortable with that too, because not everybody's going to land at an agency.

17:11 Have an agent that cares so much that they keep you booked, have the relationships in place to do that. Like I said, it's probably about 1% of DJs that are that are actually full time touring and have nothing else going on. And that's their mainstay and they're making a really nice living and doing that. Everybody else, I think, has to find something else that they're passionate about, that they like to do and that they and that they work at. I mean, for me, it's been other artistic things, other cultural things. I was, you know, at Chicago Polk Media for a while. I was writing for the Tribune. I was. I've done all these other things in the background to sustain myself because I have been very, very, you know, unhappy without money at times.

18:04 And that is a really hard place to be. And once you've done that a few times, you got to go. Well, for me, I went not doing that anymore. And so I've been able to sort of parlay my my knowledge, my degrees, and make another career for myself within the arts, within nonprofit world and in teaching and mentoring and coaching and consulting. And so that part has been really rewarding, too. I like that work, yeah. Yeah. And I think it all kind of feeds into each other because you like, when I'm trying to do something in the music industry, it's often advice or experiences from like, you know, TV news that I'm like, oh, this applies here. Yeah.

18:51 So I think it really is helpful sometimes, like you fly too close to the sun when you're all in on music and then you can't like, see the bigger picture. Yeah, and it's hard for people who maybe were doing well at one time and now are struggling. And then you kind of go, well, what else can I do? Right. So I think just having that balance, but you know, it's, there's so many different success stories out here too, people who were going to give up and and then all of a sudden somebody, you know, found them, found their story to be super marketable and now they're at, you know, the top of their game, right?

19:36 And but, you know, 40 years later. Yeah, yeah. The best, some of the best advice I've ever heard was that when things are going really well is the time to be humble, embrace yourself because of the cycle. And I think about that all the time. So, you know, when I have a win, yeah, I celebrate, but not overly so. Yeah. Because you never know when the other shoe is going to drop, I mean. You you have your theater that your CEO is your official title, right? Yeah, CEO of the theater, which I want to talk about in the same building of my last studio that flooded. Everyone who listens to podcast knows about that. I was up, I got a studio so excited and then it flooded. You know, so those are the times like to be humble because you don't know what's around the corner. And if you can kind of level set everything and manage your emotions, it's a lot easier to ride those cycles. Absolutely.

20:30 I always say that if you're going to if you're going to pat yourself on the back, just, you know, make sure that I don't, I, you know what? I don't always say that. I don't know why I even, I don't know why I even said that, but but I would say this. If you are going to pat yourself on the back, just make sure that you have two hands. You know what I mean? So what's the other hand doing? You know, hopefully it's giving something to somebody while you're doing that. Absolutely. That's, that's great advice. And that goes back to what you were saying about just making sure you're feeding back into the scene that built you, the city that built you.

21:11 And I think that that's great advice for for any industry. So what you're doing with collaboration, it's not, you know, it's not music per SE, but you are working in the arts. What has that given you? You know, at this point in your life and career, you've done so much. What? What is that doing? For you so I I started out as a child actor so I theatre is near and dear to my. Heart that makes perfect. Sense to me and so being full circle like I didn't know that at that time, you know, I'd probably started doing things in theatre when I was six years old, like Nutcracker ballet type things and then I did you know, commercials and I did movies and I did extras. You know I was an extra on a lot of different things and then I just kind of left that world behind. The creative part of me was sort of dying inside and it wasn't until I I left I was in medical school. I left medical school and figured out that you know I was I was craving to be creative again and when you when you've grown up so close to music and art and theater and dance, it's hard to tear yourself away from that. So finding myself in the world

22:41 of being a DJ was extremely like satisfying for me. Like it was like, Oh my God, I'm, I feel real again. I feel, I feel whole. And so that part was always within me. Now, you know, maybe 1314 years ago, I started running into this guy. He's like, oh, you should come DJ for our, you know, I don't know, fundraiser or whatever Spring Fling or. And so we just started, you know, doing little things like that. And then, oh, you know, you should come to our show and I'm like, OK, you know, I really wasn't interested in that because I was all in on DJing and that was my life at the time.

23:27 But I started going to some of their shows and I was like, oh, this is pretty cool. They're doing theatre for social change. You know, it's not Othello, it's real theatre, devised theatre that has some sort of, you know, call to be empathetic and to have some dialogue around it. And so I just started getting more and more involved with them. We started doing some cultural events where I was consulting with them and helping them pull in, you know, different audiences. And, and so I was getting to an age where I was like, oh, I should, I should get on some boards.

24:08 I should find out what that's all about. I didn't even really know. It was like, I was just thinking, well, I'm getting to an age where I think I should be on some boards, right? Like, I don't even know what being on a board, man, exactly. I was like, but I should do it. And then because we had worked together so well, they approached me and said, you know, can would you like to be on our board? And I said, what a coincidence. But that just reminded me of the power manifestation, right? You can pretty much make things happen when you want them to. And so I was like, yeah, sure. And I joined the board and a couple of years later, I was the board president. And then four years after, you know, being board president for four years, we have this huge project, you know, undertaking building a new theater. And there was nobody really stewarding the project. And so it just was a natural time for me to sort of step into the role of CEO and executive director because I know the organization so well.

25:07 I've been involved with them for such a long time. And it was just natural and and everybody else agreed. And so we still have a really great board. But now, yeah, I'm running the company and helping us devise, you know, strategy around development and, and just, you know, where we're going to take it because we are building a theater, but also a community space in Humble Park. And the part about it being a community space is super important to me. Like I need to see young kids around there. And, you know, we just came out of a 10 weeks pay all paid youth summer program. So we're employing kids, we're giving them something to do.

25:48 We're teaching them about art and activism and and developing them, helping them develop professionally and personally. And so these are the things that I care about the most. And we're going to, you know, just set up a nice footprint in Humble Park so that people know there's some place to go, that where people care and where people want to learn new things, you know, have dialogue. It's amazing. There's so, so many parallels between DJing and live theater, right? The, the, the messages that you convey without even using words, the feeling, the closeness, the rawness of it. Like someone said on TikTok the other day, like, I think with AI starting to dominate movies and television, there's going to be a revived push to live theater because, you know, it's real. And I think that that's so true.

26:42 And I you see those conversations happening in the house music scene as well, with people doing no phones, parties and just being present. Yeah. And so that's one of. Those I'm going to play a no phones party festival in New York, book club radio. Is this sort of like an elevator music type thing or a boiler room or whatever? But but you know, there's no phones allowed and it has really grown and this is going to be their first festival ever 2 days and it's a great lineup. And so I'm just really happy that they called me to be a part of it. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, it makes perfect sense that they called you. And it's like, I love I I think we're really starting to see, you know, despite the numerous challenges in the industry and the, you know, the conversations that are not being said and the changes that are not being made.

27:35 I where I'm an optimist is the unique experiences we're starting to see be curated by artists themselves and smaller collectives like, you know, house calls in Chicago's always give them their props. They do a fantastic job. There's a similar organization in New York called Raw Cuts than the one you just told me about. And then artists kind of taking the charge to create their own experiences. There's a DJ in New York, West End who did like West End summer camp and it was just like free activities like basketball and a workout and, you know, fishing all leading up to a show. And it's just like a way to create community, right? And I just, and, and I know you just did something with Airbnb.

28:17 Granted, that was at Lala, but you know, I, I saw photos of you with young artists. Like just, it's weird because DJs are in that space where it's like technically you're a celebrity, but you're more accessible than a pop star or whatever, which can be kind of a bad thing depending on people have weird parasocial relationships. But it's also a beautiful thing because it gives you the opportunity to create community where I feel like a lot of genres, they can't do that. Yeah, it's true. I I run into people, I mean, I'm, I'm not exaggerating almost every day. And they go, hey, are you Lady D? And it's been like that for a while. And people will share really intimate things with you and they'll tell you how you change their life, how you save their life.

29:10 And that part is really meaningful. It is deeply moving because you you don't know that you're doing that. And for somebody to come back and share with you like, I'm still here because of your music and, and mean that and mean that, you know, that's huge. And so I take that seriously. I would never, I would never, you know, sort of like like forget that, that that's part of the job and the work that I'm doing is very therapeutic and liberatory work. And it's not just a party and having a good time all the time, right?

29:53 Like that's part of it for sure. And I want that. I just don't, you know, I don't want to forget that people do come looking for not not necessarily a savior, but looking for anything to connect them back to this world right where you go. Like, I feel better. I feel better having done this, experienced this. Yeah, yeah. And that's such an incredible motivator to continue to create art and be part of this, even when there are challenges, I feel like. That's I think you have a good point that you know, people are going to want connection again, like especially in a world of AI and. I know I do.

30:40 Being that person that can help drive that is super special. Yeah, yeah, big responsibility. So before we wrap up, tell me what is what is your vision for this next generation of house music artists and DJs as a whole? I'm really encouraged by what I've been seeing. A lot of the younger folks, the 20 somethings who are coming in, I feel like they have the right amount of reverence to do it right, that they aren't just doing it for the exposure or to be cool. I think they truly care about the history, the legacy, the people that have come before them and and have given them this inspiration to want to do this. And they're not just looking at the people who are already out there, like hogging up the limelight. They're looking for the most authentic players and saying like, wow, I can't believe I get to meet Joe Smooth or get to talk to, you know, this person, Marshall Jefferson or these all these Ogs who are still here, right? Like they are not taking that for granted that you are still walking this earth with the person who put out the song that started it all.

32:10 You know what I mean? In in this genre. And so I feel like all the kids that I've met and I, you know, kids, young people, young adults, DJ's, producers, that they are truly, truly grateful. And so if you can just keep that, you know, that modesty I, I, I do have one saying, my saying is moderation is sexy. And so I always have said that. And what I mean by that is that, you know, nightlife is nightlife. You know, the goal is to sell alcohol. That is always been the goal of nightlife. You know, now there are more sober bars, more sober parties, but the, you know, whether you have self-control or lack self-control, this industry can eat you up. And if you're not careful, you will regret that time spent not taking care of yourself.

33:07 And so it's OK to have fun sometimes, but you have to know when to say when. And so you've got to be able to balance that. So if you want to live a long life like me and look as good as that now I'm just but you know, being, you know, moderation, don't, you know, don't, don't, don't burn all the ends. I remember you said that at Nexus. That stuck with me. Yeah. So it's a it's a it's a great, great saying and great note to end on. Thank you for doing this. We've been talking about this for a while. I so appreciate you taking. The time I'm really happy I got to do it. Thank you. That is your weekly elevation. Lady D's reminder that moderation is sexy might be the most important advice any artist can hear.

33:52 The industry is cyclical. When you're up, prepare for the down. And when you're down, remember it's temporary.