Still Playing Bars When His First Hit Dropped (ft. Bontan) | EF EP 155

0:00 If people are trying to get into the music industry or trying to be touring DJs, the first the first few years is rough. It's tiring, but it's the best job in the world. I'd rather be tired with a smile on me face than than well rested miserable. Ever wonder how top DJs actually built their careers? I had to do 15 years of hard work to get any of the recognition that I wanted. Where I saw a turning point in my career is when I came true to myself. From marketing and mindset to networking and negotiation, I'm giving you the tools you need to build a lasting career in dance music. Give them bits of you and your everyday life. You have to change the way you view the word no. Like me, I'm encouraged by it. Join me, Olivia Mancuso and industry leaders as we reveal what it really takes to turn your passion into profit. This is elevated frequencies.

0:52 My biggest question for you is how old are you? Because I was, I was looking back at some of my favorite tracks of yours with your friend Josh Butler, who I've had on the show a couple times. And I'm like those tracks are like 8 plus years old but you look like maybe 20-3 at best so explain? Yourself. I'm 38. No honestly, are you serious? That's I really couldn't and I like I googled I couldn't find your real age. It's funny, I've actually like tried to Google myself once and the top hit is Bontan age. It's not even just Bontan. Yeah, because so you get this a lot. Oh, every single place I go, yes, but that's not, it's like if you were like, you can either be 40 or 18. Yeah, no, I see 18 like, but that's a good that's that's a good thing.

1:42 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially like you consider the hard life of a DJ. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and you still, you're so like. Moisturizer. Yeah. Yeah. Is that your secret? Is it actually literally? Four times a day. OK. We'll put what brand put them on. They don't give me free stuff, so I ain't going to put them on there. That's. Fair enough, fair enough. But so my fair, so people always ask me it's because my first tracks came out in 2013 and then I'm still reading some music now and everyone's like, you look the same you did in 2010. It's. Crazy. It's so crazy. And that's no shade to Josh because he looks young too, but his energy is also like he gives dad energy now I feel like, which like in a good way, he's always been a very calming like whatever. So a bit more like what?

2:24 Yeah, which is good, but like it gives off, you know, it's just sprightly energy. Yeah. Yeah. I've told Josh this like many times. We actually like the last time he was on the show, we sat and I gave him 5 tracks of of his and you yours. A couple were yours together and I ranked them and then I had him rank them and call you back as like my top three favorite tracks of all time. No way. Yeah. Seriously. Oh, that's cool. And I don't say that. I don't say that lightly. It was like a like a lot of leg works trying to compare and contrast. You guys have been friends for a while, right? Yeah, yeah, since since before we started like touring and stuff.

3:05 Yeah. Because he, he went to university with a close friend of mine and then we met and we kind of like we all made music at the same time. So I was thinking about Josh when I was 2122 and I think he was two years younger than me but he was in uni and I was I was just like DJ and locally OK where I was from just in small bars and clubs and stuff. I literally started DJ when I was 17. I just left school and started DJ like 5 * a week. Really. Yeah, yeah. What was the impetus like? Why did you think that was a good idea at the time? Just because I knew I wanted to make music. So I was like, right, if I'm going to go to I could make music all day every day because I'm working five nights through the week. So I knew I wanted to make music. And if I had a full time job, like 9:00 to 5:00, I wasn't going to get home and be exhausted. And it was the same kind of money. I mean, if it didn't pay off, it would be disastrous because you know, if I was going to do a prop, like I say, a proper job, but like a nine to five, you can build a big career and, and get promotions and stuff with DJ and you know, it doesn't really work like that.

4:09 So I took the gamble of like where I'm going to DJ five nights a week, all my effort into making music in the day times, and then just see where it goes from there. Sure. So a big topic on my Instagram lately has been like the the taboo thing of like being a wedding DJ or taking gigs that maybe aren't like necessarily fulfilling the artist side of your career. So in the beginning, were you doing like that where you're playing? It wasn't, it wasn't like weddings and stuff, but it was like like bars. Yeah, open format or like would even. Just like more like commercially house. It was, it was still house, but it was more like commercially stuff. But I did not care because I didn't have a name. So there's no, there was no brand that was getting affected by the stuff I was playing.

4:57 Does that make sense? So it's like it doesn't matter if someone comes in and goes, oh, you're not playing, cool, cool. I haven't even got a DJ name when I do, obviously when I do start to make music. And so the I, I was, I was actually still playing in the same bars when I released the Got a Feeling remix for Josh. I was still playing in the the bars and stuff at the same time, really. And then people started coming in being like, what the like, what's this like? Because they caught and I was like, I have to stop doing this now. OK, so when people started recognising you, that was kind. I was going to ask what was the impetus to be like? Now I have to start being more careful. It was when people started coming in being like, oh, we saw you post on your face because there was no Instagram. There's Facebook in 2013 and then it was kind of like people coming in and being like, what are we? We love this track.

5:46 You know, you're not you're not really playing underground in here. And I was like, it literally was about two weeks after the first person said I was like, you know, I can't do this anymore. And I took because I was only getting booked twice a twice a month as bon ton. So I took a huge like pay cut. So then try and build up my bookings as an actual. So it was like first Liverpool, then maybe Manchester, then Leeds and then a Dublin gig in Ireland came in and then it was slowly, slowly, slowly. But it's like a huge like there's no income for like 6 months when it first started like trying to tour. People are really, I mean, listen, I think you said that was like 2013. Yeah, it's a different time. I think like post COVID world, everything's so expensive and everything is so. And then you also have the combination of like, everyone wants to flex on Instagram and like being, you know, having money or looking like you have money is so important. But like, you did it And lots of people have done that where they're like, OK, I'm going to have to buckle down for a little bit.

6:45 If not. So what did you do? Like, was it just strength? Like you were just eating hot dogs everyday. I just saved up money from like when I was doing like the five like bar gigs or four or five bar gigs a week. It was just cash back then as well. Hopefully the tax man's not listening. But it. Was just like, it was just cash and it was like I just saved up cash and then like I moved in with parents, living with my parents at the time. Like when I started the Bonsam project, I was still living with my parents and I just like just saved, just spent the savings I had. And then slowly, slowly, then it kind of balanced itself out after about six months because it was like what you've got this track, you need the second one really, really quickly because you need to feed yourself and like try and live, right.

7:32 So I can't even remember what the follow up was. I think it was a remix on Defected. Time to get physical, which did okay as well is like it wasn't obviously as big as got a feeling, but yeah, it was, you know, the name got out there and then I had a track called moving out as well, which came not far after that, which was like top of B port as well. So it's kind of like, OK, we've got at least 12 months of this. When I first started, I was looking, it was like, I'm going to be all right for the next 612 months. Whereas now it's like I don't think like that anymore. It's I think of it as a career, like I have a career now, right? Was at the beginning I was like stressed, like this is how long I've got and if I don't do something by then it's everything's going to fall apart. 100%. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think I've quoted this on this show before because someone said it at this conference that I throw this guy. Paul Campbell is a manager.

8:20 He says you got to have that bag ready, meaning once something of yours hits, you better have stuff in the arsenal or you're like, that's the situation you're in where you're like, OK, I have to keep producing. And so it it's so important to have a body of work ready for when that moment hits. Yeah. And sometimes it's even like the past few years I've had like a nice track do really well and I'm like, that didn't have the follow up. So now it's just, and then that adds more pressure on yourself to like if your trucks are hitting a certain standard, like a certain amount of like listens on Spotify or whatever, or X amount of DJs are playing it. Anything you do after that, I like overly scrutinize and like this isn't as good.

9:00 And then it's all that's almost detrimental because when I have like the freedom of like, let's just really say this is I really like this and let's just put it out. Whereas now it's like it has to be, you know, I say a level. So it kind of like throws you back as there's been like big gaps through like releases where it's like I'm overly think overthinking things because it's the last track was so successful, whatever it was, the next one has to be. And if you don't think it is, I trip and I'm just stressing and I don't have releases for months. And then it's it's they are good enough. I'm just like overly in my own brain about. It right? How long do you think? There's probably not one answer, but how long do you think an artist who is touring already, who has made a full time living off of this? How long can they go between releases and like keep the momentum going without having anything? Like what's the minimum amount of releases in a year? We try and I mean I've, I'm, I'm eight months now between release.

9:58 Oh, really? Which is the longest I've ever been in my entire career. I had the last single out in October and the next one's coming out next week. Just because like I started my own label last year and we we moved distribution things around and I had all these releases like planned and we had to like stop them. And then I was like, right to give this music to all these are the labels that would just wait out until we figure out the next move with with the label. We've moved distribution companies now. So I was just like, you know, I'm going to wait out touring schedules. Tracks towards the back end of last year are still popping now kind of like one of them's gone, like kind of viral as well.

10:38 So that's kind. Of like the one that you've been posting a lot recently. What is it called? That's right. That's right, right? Charlie XCX was dancing to it. That's so great. I saw that That came up on my feet. I. Didn't even know it was going to happen. It came up on my feet as well. You just saw it out of nowhere. Like it. It just popped up. The team like group chat like was like pop. I was asleep because everyone from my team lives in America so obviously and I like I woke up in the morning and it was like 1000. Like what the fuck is going on? Is like Charlie XX is done, like use my track. And I was like, this is not true. And I went back asleep, phone, phone back on. I was like, no way. And then it's like thousands and thousands and thousands of reels and it's just been picked up by a major label as well to be upstream. So that's kind of like got legs of its own now. So I'll kind of write if that hadn't done that, I'd probably try and push records out.

11:27 But now I've got another single on my label next week. And then I've got another single on No Art in July. And then I've got some big singles coming towards like the back end of the year as well. So should we have like more six more records for the rest of the year? Because now I'm back in and I'm in the flow now. So the the the method is every six weeks a new single. That's wow. Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's for the past. 3-4, yeah, for the past 3-4 years, it's been like every six to eight weeks. It's like that's what we need to be doing. It is such a stressful feeling like it's, it's not the same, but when I'm, you know, I run AII, Co host a music business conference, Co founded one. And like when we're promoting it, if I feel like too much time has gone between like putting out a post, I mean, we have to sell tickets, we have to move tickets, like, and it's all year we're promoting.

12:14 I get so stressed. Oh yeah, 'cause you just think, Oh my God, everyone's forgetting about me. Like the exact same thing. Yeah, you like have to constantly. So like, but then that pressure can impact the art you're putting out. Too, But but then it's like you still need to sell tickets. You know, sometimes you just, you know, you don't want to affect the art you're doing and the quality, but sometimes you, you know, you got to take the knock at some point. Yeah, that's. True, I know, but this the other, so this is this is the longest and it's been killing me so eight months as long as I've ever gone without a release and it's like bugging me big, big time. But now you know, now the next one's going to be on. That's on the brain now. Yeah, I'm really curious where you got your inspo for your sound, because if I heard your music and didn't see you, I don't know if I would put you and your music together. Do you know what I mean?

13:07 Like, like, and that's not like, I don't know, like I feel the same way about Josh. Like he's like, oh, I get all, I got all my inspo from, you know, dub reggae. Like that's like, so, so out of left field. So wait, how? How did you come to land on the sound that you have? Well, I just liked so like the old like strictly rhythm records, they always had like crazy drums in them and like, So what? I grew up. I used to go to a place called the Southport Weekender when I was like 17 and it was like the only the first DJI ever saw was like was Kerry Chandler and masses at work and that was the sound I was into. It was like that US like Chicago, New York house. That was what I liked when I was like 70.

13:48 Wasn't cool for me to like it then, but that's what I was into. And all the tracks are these crazy drums. I was just like so nuts. I've never had anything like it. And I just thought to myself, that's the point I want to get to with my music is have like organic like live sound in precaution in my tracks, but I'm trying to like blend it with like acid these sounds as well. So it's I don't really hear it anywhere else, but I want to create this like weird fusion of like acid tribal, like world sounds of I don't know, I just want to make my own kind of thing. But that's it's stemmed from the US house music. Yeah, yeah. Because that, that's like the reference that I think of is when I hear your music and like, I feel like you're kind of carrying the torch and carrying keeping those tribal sounds alive. Yeah.

14:37 I feel like we've forgotten. I don't know, the the genre conversations now are so confusing to me. I used to think I had it all figured out, being a house music fan for two decades. You know, I'm like this is this and this is this and now it's mess. And I feel like with the rise of like Afro house, even though it is so different, I almost feel like tribal house kind of got like we forgot about it and, and for me, you know, whatever. Teacher, I'm glad you've separated the two because. It's so different. Travel house is like energy, like I, you know what I mean? Like that's the stuff that's. It's club music. It's like, yes, you know, you can have a kick drum, a bass line and just some, just some live drums. I'd listen to that for six hours, yeah. Me too, me too.

15:19 It's fire that that is the kind of stuff that's going to keep me out all night. Like and but that's very specific to me. Like I need energy in my music. Like I'm down with minimal, I'm down with like, you know, I I don't need like a bunch of drops or whatever, But like Afro house isn't going to yes, the the tribal. Stuff doesn't, it's got to be club oriented, orientated, I can't say it. It's got to be club focused first and foremost for me because that's why I grew up in the basements, you know, like dark clubs and stuff like that. That's what I'm about. And I, I, I still play like the day parties and stuff now like I'm playing Casa Neos in Miami and Sunday. I, I love playing those type of vibes. We don't have to play as you know, as powerful and as as fast or as dark, but I'm just give you 1 strobe light in a dark room.

16:04 That's me, that's the that's the best vibe. You so Ibiza season's coming up and you're no stranger to it. Obviously you've you've had track signs with hot creations. I want to know, because for an American, which I'm pretty sure the overwhelming majority of my audience is American DJs, playing an Ibiza feels like a pipe dream. It's, it feels like such a far away thing because geographically it's not as close as you are in the UK, but also it's just like, how do you break into that scene? So obviously you can't necessarily give the American perspective, but where were you at in your DJ career when you started attending, and were you playing or were you just observing? No, I went to, I went to Ibiza when I was 18 and I, I like, I didn't release any music till years, years, years after that because it's so close.

16:57 It's a 2 hour flight. It's, it's kind of, we're kind of spoiled and because it's like you said, it's a pipe dream, you know, coming from the States and I have a lot of, but now I've never seen more Americans in, in Ibiza than than the past couple of years, you know, because you can get cheap flights and it's not that you just sit in a plane for 7-8 hours and you, you and Ibiza. And I've got so many friends from the states that are like, we're coming to Ibiza this year, like last year, like we're going to be an Ibiza. They all showed up to like when I play the egg universe where I was like, this is sick. It's now becoming like like a, a hub for everyone now. But for me it was like, yes, we started going when I was, yeah, I was 18 and I got home and I booked a flight to go because it's the first time I went to went to space opening and booked a flight the next day to go back the week later. When I got home, I was like, this is nuts. And just went straight back, stayed in the worst hotel and it was just like spent all my money there. And then I kept every year I'd go 344 times because flights are so cheap and it's so close.

18:04 Yeah, we don't really. Spend more going on a night out in Manchester and Liverpool than they do for flight to our. Visa. So it's like what we're doing so that I used to go there all the time. I really like, the more I think about it, I, I feel like the American market's at a disadvantage because we don't have an equivalent. Like Chicago obviously has a very strong house music scene, but it's not an international hub. New York is kind of an international hub, but it's not as concentrated because we don't have like a season. Like actually everyone in New York goes to the Hamptons for the summer. You know, I know what you mean. And then Miami is like so expensive, a 2 hour flight there and a hotel stay even at the worst places that you're like out of pocket so much money and so. I mean, Ibiza, it's, it's up there in price now as well. Yeah, because you.

18:48 Can get the cheap flights, but once you're there, you spend in Miami. It's prices. But but in the when you're talking about like Americans not got that like hope. I bet you if you ask any of your favorite DJ's, I'd say no. I'm say space is in the top three clubs, of course. So you have got those like places where you know it for some people in like Europe, that's going to Miami to space is a pipe dream as well. So I feel like America is guy it's it's getting there. You know, you have got these clubs like what the framework guys are doing over in LA and you've got sound and you've got space and then you've got you know, away many clubs you've got going in New York and it's I think America's right up there now. Honestly, it's like, yeah.

19:31 We're working towards it for sure. The thing about like going to Ibiza for the summer is like everyone hangs out at like the pool or whatever. Like you see, it's like the whole industry is there. There's a reason to kind. Of. Yes. And I think and then obviously during Ade week like they're that's the same thing. That's the one thing. I mean you've got Music Week, but that's the one thing I think we're behind on that. I actually am. Personally, I'm trying to change with the conference that I've built. An actual conference. So I, I, I love Music Week. It's just a full on riot party though. It's not like AD like whereas you know, you get business done and you actually can go and you know, go to talks and stuff like with what what what you're trying to do is quite refreshing because there isn't anything like that here.

20:18 Yeah. Music Week, You know, people say Music Week or where everyone goes to business, all the business has done backstage, you know, in like green rooms where it's like. Most meetings are missed. 85% of my meetings get cancelled during Music Week because everybody's so hungover. It's like. I mean, I love it because you get to see all like your friends that you'd never ever get to see. Yeah, but it's just a full on party for like the entirety of the week. It's crazy. I always stay way too long and every year I'm like, why am I still here? Why did I do this? Like, I wish I left earlier and you just get excited, you know? I'm like, I'm taking a show on a Saturday and a Sunday and I'm going to go on the Monday. I'll get there on Saturday and then like a Wednesday offer will come in and I'm like OK, I'll do the Wednesday almost. I'll stay to the Sunday.

21:00 Before you know, you're 5 days deeper. It's crazy. You're just dragging back home. Does any like would you recommend for an American artist really trying to, I hate to use the word network, but just like build relationships and build their career to go spend a summer like or a week or whatever observing what's going on in Ibiza and like just like checking out the circuit because I feel like it's a really good place to go study. Like this is the music that's hot right now. These are the labels that are putting on the parties and are investing more in like the crew of artists they're bringing up through the label. I feel like a lot of people don't put enough emphasis on just like the field work of like observing what's going. On yeah, I absolutely, because not only that, you know, it might be difficult to try and if you're not like link up with DJs and try and if you're a DJ and you're trying to like get your music to settle the DJs, they're always going to be just hanging out in the crowd as well.

21:57 Yeah, I'd be for the type of place where like everyone just like hangs. It's not really like we're going to play and go the green room. It's like everyone's just on a dance floor and the the Villa parties, everyone's there. It's not like right, you're not invited, you're not coming. It's like kind of like everyone's just there for the vibe. You can meet so many people and just like make so many connections. Everyone's just like walking around in a day just doing a thing that's like, it's unlike you said, all the brand new musics there as well. Yeah. So if you, if that's what you're about, take your laptop, go and stay there for a month or whatever. I just get like a cheap like stay in a hostel, stay in a get cheap apartments or whatever, whatever you can do to get there for a month, two months and just just go on networking, just going listen to music and then make music that night, get inspiration. Yeah, yeah, that's the best place to get inspiration is just being on the dance floor and it's got to be really motivating when you see everyone kind of there for the same goal, same reason.

22:51 Like it's so good to put yourself in that kind of environment because it's amazing that you can build a career from your bedroom. Like I think that's incredible and that's like democratizes the the process. But like you, sometimes people self isolate too much and it's like you have to go out. You've got to be part of it. That's one thing that I threw myself in. I can't remember who said that, but they said if you want to try to make it as like a DJ or like a producer, you need to be part of the culture as well. You need to understand it. Because if you just sat in your bedroom or you're just making music and you're not really going anywhere, you don't you need to be part of it to to get it and you need to be out there.

23:31 You need to be going and you need to be going to clubs. And then you'll if you go one week and you go the next week, they'll be like, Oh, there's, you know, oh, what's up? You've become a right, a familiar face, like in the party that you're trying to go to. So I just throw go it, go into it. Like I said, when I went to Ibiza, I was there the first time I was there the week later just because I was like, this is sick. And I met so many DJs and I just started DJ myself And then I was like listening to music and I was having a laptop pop by the pool the next day with headphones on, trying to like figure out how they did that sound or whatever. It's, you know, it's just got to be part of it and just go out as much as you can. I I know I. Know it's expensive. It is, and it's exhausting, yeah. But it is so necessary.

24:11 And this is something that I had to like kick my own out about recently because when I like started working in the music business a couple years ago, like my ratio of working to going out, like I, I started going out less and less and less and less because I was like, so locked into, I have these podcast interviews the next day. I have to be fresh for it. I'm doing this, I'm doing that. And then I kind of lost the connection that I have with the music that I've loved since I was like 13 years old. And so I'm pushing myself more now to just have a late night. And sometimes you got to have an early morning and it just, it is what it is. And it was actually I, I did some the marketing and branding work for an artist who I saw tore all weekend and then jump on a 9:00 AM session with me on Monday is like, no excuses.

24:59 She's like, we need to get this done. And I was like, wow, like, that's if you can do that. That's the hustle. That's the hustle. What do you think about that? Because I posted about it and everyone told me I was promoting unhealthy habits which. Is the job isn't it's unhealthy what I do and what DJs do? It's not healthy, but that's what do you want to do. Do you want to do it or did you not want to? I'm sorry, but like it's not like I was mentioning before I was late because I've been up 3:00 AM this morning. I had to go to London. I had I had three hours sleep. I fell asleep about midnight, got up at 3, pickups at 3, flew to London, flew to Chicago, not slept the entire time came straight here to do this with you.

25:40 I'll get 2 hours sleep before the gig. I'll play tonight and go straight to New York from it. So it's not, it is unhealthy, but I'm OK with that because this is what I want to do for my career. Not everyone gets, you know, if you don't want to do it, if you want to do, but you can balance it. You can go and you can be, you can eat well, you don't have to drink alcohol. You can like you can balance it. And then when you do get a chance to sleep, you catch up as much as you can. But for that, for those Thursday, Friday, Saturday, maybe Sunday, it's going to be, it's going to be a rough ride. As long as you're not like burning the candle at both ends and like mixing in everything else with it that's going to like completely destroy you, you know, it's, it's sustainable. Yeah, Yeah, I think like I got, I got a lot of negative feedback, which I expected.

26:27 But what I think I've had this conversation with a couple of my artist friends who have the same share similar mindset. They're like, ask those people how many TV shows they're binging right now or ask those people how many drinks they had last night. Because if this is a dream that you want and you want to go after and you feel like, oh, like, like you had a very good reason to cancel you everything you just told me you could have canceled this, but you didn't, which I'm very appreciative of. But like, I feel like people aren't willing to like kind of audit their lives and see where maybe they're self sabotaging a little bit. And it's like, yeah, does it suck to go to go to your 9:00 to 5:00, then spend like all night making music, then having to go out on weekends and network? It does.

27:13 But like, are you sleeping? Are you eating for breakfast? Like, where? Where else can you make sacrifice? Because this is a dream career and you have to go where no one else is willing to go. I've, I've done, I, I was, when I was 1617, I was on a building site like, and then the next day I was working in a shop building that fitting out like the, the shelves and stuff. So I had like 3 jobs at one point. Trust me, that is way worse than what I'm doing now. I'll take a tired weekend over having to go and do a job that I hated because, you know, sometimes I will complain about being tired, but then I'm just, I catch myself.

27:53 I'm like, this is exactly what you want to do, right? You know, I'm at the point now where I'm like, I'm balancing it. It's taken me a long time to figure out, but I'm like, I'm eating healthy now 5-6 days a week. I'm not like drinking alcohol all the time. I'm like trying to get as much water as possible, going to gym four times a week now. So it's like I kind of find a nice place with it. And then, you know, I might have a drink maybe in New York tomorrow or maybe one at Miami on Sunday. But then it's like back to it healthy Monday. Boom, straight back to your routine, making music. And then you get your fix of like listen to music and like in that environment of a club at the weekends. And as long as you can find the balance, totally sustainable and it can be healthy. Totally, yeah, there's give and take. Like I said, the time that I wasn't like going out at all. I also was so strict about not drinking ever. And like I did like a year break. I did six months, whatever.

28:47 And I just realized like putting those harsh boundaries on things, it's. Just moderation. It's just, it's just like, and it's intuition, right? Like, yeah, I feel like having one tonight or no, I don't. And that's OK. I just feel like there's so many like, and maybe people accuse me, me of this of like trying to impose so many rules, but it's really not. At the end of the day, it's like figuring out your balance and what works for you and knowing that if you're going on a on a Ripper one weekend, you can implement rest later in the month. It's but but at the same time, when you're building a career like skated to a point where it's sustainable and you feel good and you feel like financially safe. Yeah.

29:29 You're going to be, you're going to be on for a lot longer than you want to be. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's exhausting. It's it's totally exhausting, but it's worth it. It's exactly what like if people are trying to get into the music industry or trying to be touring DJs, the first, the first few years is rough, rough. And it's exhausting. You need, because you need to be going out. You need to be like meeting your peers and going to see other DJs. You need to be making music. Then you need to be trying to DJ yourself. Then you need to be sustaining yourself financially as well, which means either working, doing something or trying to DJ the weekends yourself. It's just it's, it's tiring but it's the best job in the world. I'd rather be tired with a smile on your face then then well rested miserable. That's I love that.

30:13 That's such a perfect quote. So, OK, so you decided to add your new label into the mix. So touring wasn't enough, you know, all the things that you're already doing. How's that going? And and why did you do it? I did it because I just wanted to own my own music and I was like releasing music on. I still release music on all the labels, like like say for example, no arts and stuff. You know, good friends of mine. I've known them for a long time and I love the label and love what they do. But the 90% of my music is going to be on my label just because I want to start like creating a brand outside of just what I do as a DJI want my label Nordstrom to be like a hub for to break other artists as well. And everyone said every other DJ that starts a label says the same thing.

30:58 It's true. It's like that's what you want to do. You want to create a home for some artists that I feel like my sound is quite unique and I want the label to be unique. So if there's some other kids out there that are making stuff kind of similar to what I do, but it doesn't fit anywhere else when there's a home for it now, maybe it's even. Even if it's one, yeah, at least you've done something for someone, for someone else that you can't get the music signed anywhere else because no other label signed and stuff like that. Been cool for the job done, but at least I can put my music on there as well. And then we started doing N drum parties. The first one was at Fabric in London, which is not so if. That's pretty cool. Yeah, number one, straight into fabric. So we just plan out the second one now, but that was crazy.

31:40 But yeah, I just wanted to I have a place for my own music was I'm not on anyone else's timeline. No one else is kind of telling me creatively what to do. There's no way and telling me to change things. It's just completely my own vision and that's what I wanted to do. Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. I mean, I, I, Josh just talked about his label when he was here, Tennis, DJ tennis said his label forever, but he was talking about, you guys all say the same thing. But I think that's amazing because it is such a clear example of how dance music is really reliant on the peer-to-peer network of other DJs producers uplifting other DJ producers, which that's not the case like in other genres, like it is here, like it is in this scene.

32:28 Yeah, it's it's kind of rare because it's it's kind of like it's own thing with with DJs. You are right. We do like up try and uplift everyone and everyone's kind of like rooting for everyone. And that's how I feel anyway. Maybe not everyone's the same, but when I see like friends win, I'm like, yes, it feels like a win for me as well. Yeah, but. Maybe that's just me, but I love seeing everyone else win. Are you all right? Which you know, you've got to try and uplift each other. It's amazing. OK, well, you said that you're like kind of the Chicago sound was was your early on inspiration. Have you you've been in Chicago before? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this. I think I must have been here 7 or 8 Times Now. Do you have any favorite spots?

33:14 Through the listening room. Yeah, that was my that was my first gig in Chicago. Oh, with the house calls. Crew and it was love that the best. Yeah, they're great. It was the best. I had so much fun. It was just like this tiny, tiny, tiny room, but it was super cool. It's yeah. And I just yeah, it went on till all I was I flew in straight from Ibiza for that. I was exhausted. And I was like, I I think I I'll be the book me. I'd met her in Miami and she's like, I'm going to book you like backstage. She's like, I'm going to book you for my for my club in Chicago. And you know, you hear that a million times people. And then the booking came and I was like, and then I showed up to the club and she's like, yeah. And I was like, no way. That's crazy. Yeah, and that's and then played for house calls a bunch. That's bad.

33:56 I love what they do. You know, they're the best crew and they're all going to, I'm going to see them all later as well. But yeah, I love what they. What's that spot called? Is it Al Alhambra? Alhambra. I played there. Was that a Halloween? Yes, their Halloween party it was. So much fun. That looks crazy. That venue was so I've never been in there. I think I was out of town on Halloween because we I wanted to go to that. But it looks crazy from the outside. I can't imagine what it's like. It was insane because I I flew because I didn't realise how big Halloween was in the States. Oh big. Big and I wasn't dressed up and everyone was like, I played in Denver the night before and they had the Halloween party then and everyone was dressed up and I just wasn't. And they were like, right, we've got a dress up box in the back. You need to go and figure out what you're going to wear. And I was like, I just don't ever dress. It's such a thing.

34:47 And they were like, I found this crown. I was like, you put the crown. I was like, right, that's it. I'm wearing this. Took that to Chicago the next day and I was like, this is my outfit to the day. And I was like sick. Yeah. I was like, that's the crowd. Just became my thing for Halloween. We take it very seriously. I got married the day after Halloween and we had a Halloween party rehearsal dinner. Like that's yeah. Like I'm, I'm big on Halloween. It's it's a big thing here. I think like people are just especially in the Midwest, we want an excuse to drink and party so bad, you know, because like a lot of the Midwest can be a little boring. Yeah. I don't know, like what the UK equivalent is, but yeah. Yeah, you need, you need a good excuse to party. Yeah, yeah, we'll make any it's.

35:31 Not so like the Halloween stuff over here. It's just not, it's just not a thing in the UK. I'm. Surprised. Yeah, we literally don't don't have Halloween parties or anything like that. Nobody dresses up. No. What a shame. The kids, the kids do, you know, like trick or treat and stuff, but it's we might get like 2 knocks on the door all night. What a shame. Yeah, and that's just. The what is your what is your big hot like biggest holiday then? Christmas maybe. Yeah, we go hard to Christmas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. London, Christmas time. That's a dream. I would, I would love to be there. There's always like, like fire parties as well around Christmas time. Yeah, because everyone's, you know, just hyped, everyone's in a good mood. Yeah. So like the cold, like all, like the basements and all the all the all the raves are all going off like warehouse project season over Christmas and stuff.

36:16 It's fire. OK, noted. I like travelling in the winter. I'm not AI like going to cold places. So I I have. Oh really? I yeah, because I don't know, I like cities. I like more unique weird vibes. Like, like I love Salzburg. I've been to Venice in February. I was in, I was in London. The last time I was in London was in February too and it wasn't too bad. Yeah. Did you go out? Yeah. Did you go to Fabric? No, I went to Printworks before it shut down. It was the what was the it's like an Irish like festival, not Ava. No, that's not. That's something else is. It a Techno 1.

36:57 Yes. I think I know what you mean. And it was like an all day festival and it was crazy. Just like it. Yeah, I mean that that was probably the last time I've ever gotten like, really fucked up. That was like, really, really. You go to London once and you're like, I'm done, Yeah, I'm not partying anymore. That was in 2020, two or three, I can't remember. I think 2020, 2023 and I had to go straight home and I didn't know because we flew in from Venice. I didn't know that the Heathrow because we didn't land in Heathrow. I didn't know that the Heathrow airport was so nice, like so bougie, and we were like creatures from the Black Lagoon, like crawling, like it was terrible because we were too afraid to fall asleep.

37:45 Or like we will miss our car service, like our flight. Yeah. And I just, I was so embarrassed like because usually I try to dress somewhat nice for the airport. It would put together, it was bad. It was so bad. Creatures of the Night. Yeah, it was so bad. And I was. And we got there really early too because we were stressed, so I just had to sit there in shame. So, you know, But like at an Ibiza airport, like, that's different, you know, It's like to be expected. Yeah. But he throws like suits and like. Design and I'm like very much, it's very much suits. Yeah, I'll never make that mistake again. I love that. Yeah, well, this has been such a great chat. Thank you again for. You've had a crazy day, so I really appreciate.

38:26 It you're welcome. I love it. Thank you so much.