Sam Divine on Sobriety & Starting Over | EF EP 135

0:00 When success starts destroying you, do you walk away or do you rebuild on your own terms? Mixing in the bottom of my mum's garden in her sheds with like cobwebs, freezing cold. I didn't even have a heater out there. Sam Devine spent 25 years grinding her way to the top from handing out Flyers on Ibiza streets. They were sending me vinyls and T-shirts and CDs and I'd go all around the island and hand them out. To becoming the queen of Defected, but the journey nearly broke her. A lot of times throughout my career, however, I've been pretty depressed actually, and big reasons why I wanted to give up. My first sober date was defective clothes in Ibiza and I hated it. If you've ever felt like giving up, like the industry is too much, like you're losing yourself in the chaos, this conversation is for you.

0:47 Because on the other side of rock bottom, Sam found something unexpected. I wrote 3 songs while I was in rehab and actually one of the records is called Scars. It's about being an active addiction and now seeing the light and finding my faith. It's a profound new energy. You know, 555 is about a new era. From breakdown to breakthrough, this is how you rebuild yourself and your career on your own terms. You're listening to Elevated Frequencies. I know you're here for Elro, but I want to talk about 555 first because that's the newest thing for you so. So talk to me about that journey and what that is. Yeah, so 555. I ran a record label called Divine Sounds for 10 years, which was beautiful.

1:29 I ran it with two of my best friends. You know, it's proper girl gang. And then I went into partnership with defected in 2020. Obviously we, you know, we were grounded and had to pay the bills, etcetera. But but we recently just got the label back and I wasn't sure whether I wanted to carry the label on. And then I was just on the phone to my friend and I was talking about this 555 and I was thinking, why don't we do an all night long tour? 5 LB early bird tickets because of the crisis that the whole world is in right now, the recession, 5 cities and five hour sets. Because I haven't done all night long sets since my seasons in Ibiza. And from that it was so exciting. I was like, you know what, I've just got to start another record label and it's more for self releasing my own music, you know, because my background is from garage, drum and bass, hip hop, R&B, you know, even hardcore. I was a hard house DJ for two years before I started playing soulful house.

2:27 So yeah, it, it just felt right. And I kept seeing 555 all day, bringing the spiritual number of, you know, positive change and this new era, this, this new sober era that I'm coming into right now. You know, I'm nearly a year clean and sober on the 2nd of January. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. It's been, it's been an incredible year. And, you know, for me, storytelling with artists is so important. You know, I have the Defector Radio show as a great platform where I can champion artists and, and break records. And I just thought, you know, I'm really good at running a record label. So it, you know, it was literally in a space a month, I was like, not going to run a record label anymore. Yeah, I am going to run a record label. SO55 was born.

3:10 I love that. I love the Angel number part of it too. OK, so most people do know you of of course, as the Queen of defected, but there's so much more to the story. So what? What do people need to understand? What context do they need to know about your early days that kind of lays the foundation for who you are as an artist today? Yeah, well, I guess it goes back to kind of being really young. My first album was Tina Turner when I was seven years old, you know, And then, you know, having my cassette player and this is kind of story of many deejays actually, of listening to the Top 40 and, you know, cutting out the all the talking. And so I was making mixtapes of just music. My mum always had music on in the house, you know, we'd always dance around the kitchen before she went to work.

3:56 She was a lorry driver. So I used to always used to go in the truck with her and listen to music. So music was such a huge part of my life from a very, very early age. And then I got my first set of decks when I was 19, completely self-taught. All of my friends were trance DJs and hard house DJs. One of my really good friends worked at Tower Records. So I used to work up in a mobile phone shop part time in the High Street. And in my lunch break I would go into Tower Records and get all the under counter promos. And that was really cool. I actually started building my record collection before I even had turntables. So yeah. And then I got my first set of decks and after parties, you know, I'd jump on and I didn't even have anywhere to put them. I would literally knelt down to mix. And one of my friends worked at Virgin, so he would send me a lot of garage promos.

4:47 And then I started getting defective record promos. I mixed every single day for six months in the bottom of my mum's garden in her shed. She wouldn't let me in the house. She didn't understand house music at all and she didn't think it was ever going to become a career. You know, she just called it boom, boom, boom music. And after two years she actually let me in the house and I couldn't even afford anything to put my decks on. So had my mum's ironing board for like another two years. I entered ADJ competition. I won that competition. There was only me and another, another girl. And out of the five records, because it was only like 30 minutes sets, she had played three of my records. And I remember just running to the toilet and I was crying my eyes out and I was thinking, Oh my God, what am I going to do? My friend said just flip to the B side. But I hadn't practiced the B side. So anyway, ended up winning.

5:38 Went on to be a junior Booker at the nightclub where I was resident at and just playing to just playing to bar staff really. And then I started to get the confidence and I was booking DJs for the club and then I ended up starting my own night at the club. There was 2 sections like the top room was was predominantly more R&B and and hip hop and it was called Sundays are Divine and it was like 5 lbs to get in. So I started promoting nights really alone by the time I was 20. And then I did my first season in Ibiza and then it all just it all just kicks off from there. So I'm assuming that's where the name kicked in. Sundays are divine, Sam. Sundays are divine. Well it was actually Miss Divine. I was MI dollar dollar divine and then when I got signed to defected in 2009, Simon said you need to change your name after a couple of years undefected.

6:31 So Sam Devine was born. But it's it's been 1 hell of a journey. Wow, to get here now you know well, mixing in the bottom of my mum's garden in her shed with like cobwebs, freezing cold. I didn't even have a heat. Or I think every artist, like, can remember that moment where they were banished from the house. Yeah, yeah, I, my brother's an artist. He's a DJ as well. And he started his career on drums when he was like, 12 years old in our basement. And I used to be like, I love you, but I hate you because listening to a 12 year old learn how to play drums was, you know, a test of my, my patience. But wow, that's that's such a story. So you learned the business side of things kind of first very early on, throwing your own nights promoting the grassroots way.

7:19 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, back then of course as well, there wasn't any social media, right? You know, we had Myspace and if, if I was getting booked, I remember my first international booking was in Russia and I got booked through, through Myspace and I remember going to the airport and hadn't even been paid yet. And I was like, Oh my God, what am I going to do when I get there? Like, who do I call just hoping that someone's going to be at the airport to pick me up, you know. And that happened for for many, many years just through Myspace. And I was really blessed actually, after my first season in Ibiza, I was working in a record shop in my, in my local hometown in Weston Super Mare. And after my first season in Ibiza, there was a position to run a record shop in Notting Hill in the London.

8:00 So I was like, you know what, I'm just going to move to London. And my friend had a job at BBC and we literally just packed up. We threw all our stuff in the back of the car, went to London. We didn't know anyone. You know, I'm running this record shopping in Notting Hill. And I had all the DJs come in that were playing at Ministry of Sound at Egg at the end and, and Canvas and the cross. And so I just, I just got networking through working in, in record shops. And Aaron Ross at the time, who was the A&R at Defected, he used to come in and buy record from me. And of course, Defected used to have pashas on Tuesdays in 2008. And he was like just calm, like I'll put you on the guest list, come and hang. And that's how I got to meet Simon Dunmore.

8:42 And they created this position for me on the Defected St. team, which there was no team. It was literally just me. And they were sending me vinyls and T-shirts and CDs and I'd go to the island and, you know, go all around the island and, and hand them out. And, and then 2009 Simon flew me back to London to play Miniature Sound, my first affected show. And on the Monday I got signed to the roster being the 1st as they say now the first female DJ to be signed to defect it. Wow, St. teams back then, what a concept. The concept of a street team now is so much different. It's like a, like a content focused sort of thing. I, I interned at Kiss FM in 2012 in Chicago and St. teams were still a thing there too. I remember we had to go out, run out and like try to find people to be on the radio and call in or whatever. And people weren't used to like that back then, being approached by strangers with promo and stuff. Now everyone kind of expects it because of social media. So was that like you're such an outgoing person, but was that like a, a weird job for you or did you love it? I loved it because promoting my own nights back in Weston Super Mare, my hometown, you know, I used to stand out on the street handing out Flyers to get people in the clubs, you know, and in Ibiza was the same.

10:03 We'd go out in the streets and we'd just talk to people. And one of my best friends was the PR. And I remember she used to have this fishernet and she used to put it over people's heads and like literally drag them into the bar. And then we'd have some shots with them and then I'd jump on the decks and you'd see those same faces coming back summer after summer. And considering that, you know, there's you were spoiled for choice in Ibiza, like there's so many super clubs, but you'd see the same people in the bar every single night. And then you just become that's how you build your community and your fan base. So yeah, I mean, being the street team, you know, I was a one man band, but I loved it because I got to go around all the clubs. I got to meet all the DJs and and actually, you know, I was living and breathing defected because I was handing out all this music and then hearing it for the first time on a dance floor and hearing certain DJs play it.

10:53 And then, you know, feeding that back into defected and, and and, you know, then they, you know, were either signing more records from that artist. So, you know, it was a real pinnacle point in my career of, you know, really, you know, on the streets to the club, you know, and and I I think that that's lost now. You know, I think that that era will never come back again. You know, you'll never see a DJ outside flyering for their own party. I mean, what is flies? We have social media now, you know. Right, right. I, I think some people are kind of trying to bring back the analogue lifestyle. And there's like, you know, with the no phones on the floor policy, which I like. And you know, I go back and forth sometimes I think and get a little Snooty, but you know, the people are trying to bring it back. But you really can't put the toothpaste back in the tube with this sort of thing.

11:43 You had to just live it. And I think it's also a testament to like, don't try to rush life and rush the process because this is the the building is like where it's the most it's. The fun part, actually, it's, it's the funniest part because you know, this year being sober, I've done a lot of reflect and it's been a year of reflection for me. And there's been so many times throughout my career where I've just wanted to give up, you know, and, and that makes me so sad because going back to that time in my bedroom and just just living and breathing it as as time goes on and the bigger that you get it, you kind of lose why you first started out and why it was so fun in the 1st place.

12:28 You know, I, I think the pressures of everything in the industry can, can really get on top of you. And that's why you have to be so thick skinned in this industry. And also for me, you know, I've been doing this 25 years. So 555 is my new baby. It's all shiny, It's all, it's all new. But I have all the knowledge and the experience of running a record label for 10 years and all the, you know, the mistakes that I may have made in that time, I can make sure that I don't make them again now. So you know, I think, I think trying to reinvent yourself as many times as possible throughout, but staying in your lane still staying really true to yourself is so important. Sure, yeah. And always having something to look forward to a new projects to develop.

13:13 There's there is a personality type out there where they will continue. They'll just chase shiny objects and maybe not see them through or abandoned things when when things get hard. So like, I mean, I was like that at one point in my life, right? Like you try and endeavour, it doesn't work out, you give up too soon. So there's merit in sticking something out. But I do think it's important. 25 years, you have to do something new. You have to switch up the formula a little bit to stay inspired. Absolutely, absolutely. And, you know, being, you know, doing what I've done for for as long as I have, you know, you're going to get, you know, I've built up such a a beautiful community. We're a family, you know, my, my, my fan base. And there's people there that have been from day one, But you know, it, those people will fall off at at some point. So, you know, my strategy now is making sure that I'm playing, you know, the festivals like Greenfields or Park Life or Hideout, where it is predominantly a younger crowd, so that you're always just, you know, you're always staying current because that's, you know, the easy part is actually, you know, that bit in at the beginning, I guess, because it's just everything you're just learning on the fly. So it feels quite easy.

14:27 It's not as challenging, but the challenging part is sustaining. You know your your, your top spot if you like and and that can be, you know, it can comes with so many different pressures. Sure, sure. That's what I talked to Jamie Jones about. It's like mastering the long game and how do you like you just have to think strategically about everything. And that's one of the biggest, that's the biggest pushback I get on the content that I make about like, you know, doing this to have a sustainable career and like people like I just want to make music and yeah, yes, I just want to yap on camera. I would love to just do that, but I have to constantly re evaluate like Will was in here before you and he's like, we're discussing why my cameras suck and what I need to upgrade.

15:12 You know, like these are the things I don't care about, but I have to do to keep moving the needle. Absolutely. And that's like that's any creatives journey. Yeah, you just got to keep things moving, you know, and it's really important. And sounds change, you know, my sound from from when I first started out 25 years ago. You know, I was a hard house DJ and I fell into Solve House by complete accident. Who got you into it? So one of my friends was promoting an event in Bristol and the headline DJ had missed his flight and he was like can you stand in for me? And he had two nights, 2 brands, a hard house brand and a sulfa house brand. And I was like I can but I don't have any self house records. And one of my friends was like you can borrow mine. And I was like how hard can this be? You know, I can mix vinyl vinyls, vinyl right houses house completely different.

16:01 Obviously the BPMS are so different and afters I really enjoy playing, but the promote was like some really cool set, however slow it down, you know, because I've just got like Barbara Tucker sounding like a chipmunk right now. I'm just like no concept of BPMS whatsoever and I just fell in love with it and I actually never played hardhouse after that. I was like, this is and after after I played that soulful house set, it was shortly afterwards that I started working in the record shop and started having my kind of house and defected trying, if you like. So every move that I've made, the opportunities that I've put myself and created those opportunities has always led on to something bigger and better.

16:44 And that's pretty much happened throughout my whole career. You know, I've been on a on a steady trajectory and I've never dipped. I've never just kind of plateaued. I've always been, always been kind of, you know, rising and grinding. Yeah, and you're documenting that journey, right? You have a documentary that just came out. Married to the music. Married to the. Music. OK, so tell me about that. Yeah, so that was my complete accident. I actually just had a interview with a film crew and they just saw something in it and was like, we'll come to a show just so we can do some, you know, ETS around the the interview and it just carried on and on and on. And eight years we were filming it for. Eight years.

17:28 Eight years, yeah. We stopped filming 2 years ago, so the whole project is 10 years. Wow all. Through Kovid, like before Kovid, coming out of Kovid, my first show back from Kovid and it's insane and the narrative through it is the challenges of female deejays in the industry, But it it homes in on how relentless touring is that the it's it's like a peep behind the curtain if you like. And, you know, I'm very honest about my mental health in it. You know, there's been a lot of times throughout my career where I've been pretty depressed actually. And big reasons why I wanted to give up. And it's a lot of tears in it, a lot of tears. But there's also a lot of highs as well, you know, and, and things like being nominated for things at DJ Mag and then not winning them.

18:15 And, you know, you know, really kind of seeing that, you know, just just a disappointment look on my face of thinking, God, I'm really deserving of that. But that was God's test. That wasn't my time. That time, you know, and bigger and better things happened after that, you know, like winning the best DJ award last year in Ibiza was just like, I didn't believe it. I still don't believe it. You know, my friends and my my husband was crying, my dad came with me. And even now I still that having that kind of impostor syndrome of am I even deserving of, of things like this? You know, because I do keep myself very grounded. You know, I've got a lot of people around me that, you know, really humble me. And it's yeah, it's just been a crazy journey.

18:59 Crazy. And so throughout that filming process, because I know when I met you in 2022, when I interviewed you at EDC, you I think you were sober then too. Sober, D Jing. Sober D Jing OK, so so so this has kind of happened in increments. Yes, so I started off 2019, I did 100 day sober and my first sober date was defective clothes in Ibiza and I hated it. I literally barricaded myself in the corner of the club and I had all my friends around and I was like, I don't want to talk to anyone. And where when I played low stepper and I were were closing and the the promoter came up to was like, oh, you know, you're killing it, can you play on the next half an hour? And I was like, I just want to get off the death. I hated every single second of it. What made you hate it?

19:47 I just, the fact that I just, I'd always drank, I'd always been quite drunk when I was playing for like the reason why I went sober in 2019 is because I couldn't remember. I went sober for October and loved it and I did my first US tour sober. And one of my good friends, Gina, who, who runs Halcyon, we went on a on a girls trip. We went to, went to Napa Valley, obviously wine country. And but I didn't have the wine And you know, I had like apple juice and a wine glass and I was eating all the cheese and the girls were having wine and I just it, it was like coming back to the states. It all felt really brand new to me because I'd always been hungover or drunk, still getting on a flight, right? So the whole 8 years I've been playing in America just felt like a complete blur when I came back and did it sober. So I ended up doing another 30 days and then ended up doing 100 and loved it.

20:44 I loved how it made me feel. Obviously no hangovers and I was like way more productive and wasn't as down I guess was the way to describe it. And obviously then lockdown came and like everyone drinking at 11:00 in the morning, you know, and, you know, standard procedure for lockdown. And I just kind of, I, I was really struggling with what was reality because I toured so hard for 10 years and I hadn't stopped, you know, the longest that I'd stopped touring for was maybe a weekend, very rarely had weekends off. And I was really struggling. It started to send me a little bit crazy. I was like, I don't know what my purpose is anymore, you know, And I and I really went into a very, very dark place. And my agent was living with this breath work coach at the time.

21:38 And he said to me, I think you need to see someone because I was crying every day on the phone to him and I saw him. And it just felt like a massive weight had lifted that someone saw me, saw my soul, saw what I was going through. And I was with him for 18 months and it significantly changed my life. And I gradually started to come round to the fact that I didn't want to drink and take drugs anymore. It didn't suit my life anymore. So coming out of lockdown, July 2022 was the first festival back and I just made a pact of myself. I said I'm not going to drink at any of my shows, I'm going to buy a nice car, I'm going to drive myself to all my shows, be in and out. And I did that for about 18 months. And then I fell off the wagon a little bit last January and I started to have a couple of tequilas here and there, nothing too crazy.

22:36 And then my mum passed away last March and I just threw myself into work and it got to September last year and I just started grieving and I really, really started to self destruct. I was taking a lot of drugs, I was drinking a lot of alcohol, and I felt like I was a ghost. When I was deejaying, I didn't feel. I didn't feel whole. I didn't. I just didn't feel myself. I felt incredibly, credibly sad. Actually, for Soulful House, that's a very strange thing to feel disconnected from.

23:16 From all house, yeah. I couldn't even listen to music on my way back from my shows. I would listen in silence or like the music was almost like it was hurting me. Yeah, it was. It's so hard to describe. And my agent, we, we cut my set times down to like an hour because even just two hours, I was just, I was just about getting through my sets, you know, I was really tearful and I just didn't want to be there. You know, I really struggled to even get myself ready to go to the airport. You know, it just, I was just on autopilot mode and I was like, I cannot go through this any longer. Like I'm not going to and going to either do something stupid or just I just felt incredibly not myself and in a really dark place. So I put myself into rehab in January this this year and more so for exhaustion.

24:14 I just wanted a break. I wanted to go away. I didn't want to talk to anyone. I just needed that me time. And my dad actually said it's not even going to be the drugs and alcohol that kill you, it's going to be your work. So I'm a workaholic which is the same as an alcoholic or a drug aholic. All addictions have the same property. It's just as dangerous. It's just as dangerous. So, yeah, I the burnouts were getting more, it was taking more and more time to get over. So I just thought I really need to do something about this. So but myself into this beautiful rehabilitation center in the north of England, You know, it was in the forest and it was a very holistic approach. So I was doing like breath work and my creative side, I mean, I didn't feel like I had a creative side for the last probably 18 months really.

25:03 I was just kind of getting through my shows and getting through the weekends. And that's no way to live for anyone, right? When you're so passionate and you love something so much, you just don't want to, you just don't want to do it. And I started painting. I wrote 3 songs while I was in rehab and actually one of the records is called Scars. It's about being an active addiction and now seeing the light and finding my faith and coming out the other end and that's actually coming out on 555 S. So many beautiful things came from, from, from rehab and I just learnt so much of how to calm my nervous system down and, and just to be peaceful and to be happy and grateful for the things that I have got in my life. Because I'm always, that's what made me ill as well, because I'm always thriving for the next thing, for the next thing. And you know, like I said, winning the best DJ awards last year in Ibiza, but then what's next? Of course, what's next?

25:57 Of course, I had another artist say that like after he accomplishes a goal, he just feels relief and then he's ready to move. It's not even like he doesn't spend the time to like, soak it, soak it in and feel gratitude. Gratitude's so important. Oh, so important. So it's yeah. And but you you checked yourself into into rehab, which is like, you know, I feel like a lot of people wait until it's through the power of suggestion of others. But you clearly recognized that this was something that could change your life for the worse. And you and you mentioned earlier you've had this steady upward trajectory. And so do you feel like, do you feel like having to slow down blipped that or do you feel like it's all just part of the story? I mean, I feel like, I mean, even now, it's like balance wasn't even in my vocabulary, you know, like what is balance? I just, you know, I've missed so many birthdays, I've missed so many, you know, occasions where I've just really thrown myself into work and it took a month off of just breathing and just, you know, my whole team were amazing. You know, we, we, we actually deleted everything off my Instagram in December and we did a complete blackout in January because I knew I was going to be this different person coming out of rehab.

27:24 My social media has gone nuts since I did that. You know, I needed that reset. I mean, obviously it's quite extreme going going to rehab it, you know, but for me and, and my journey, that's what I needed to do. And I mean, I still haven't slowed down too much this year. It's been last year, considering it was my worst year ever of my life, you know, losing my mum and, and, you know, being incredibly sad. Whereas this year being sober has been the best year of my life. You know, so many amazing opportunities have come my way and moving into that Wellness space and just inspiring. Also like sober curious DJs. It's a movement.

28:07 It's a movement. And life is I, I hate to be that person, but life is so much better without drugs and alcohol. It is as someone who also like, of course I was a raver, you don't miss it once you see how good you feel. Oh. My gosh. When you're not doing those things, like, you just feel like a different person. Yeah. But it's crazy that you were able to, to thrive still, like you were able to accomplish as much as you did. Yeah. While, you know, drinking and drugs. Now, do you feel like you just have gotten like this, like supercharged horsepower where it's just like you can accomplish anything? Absolutely.

28:49 Like I'm in 7th gear now. Yeah. You know, I literally do feel like that. It's the the profound new energy. You know, 555 is about a new era. And I truly really believe that in my heart. And, and I feel like using all the experience and the knowledge of the last 25 years, I feel like I'm just getting started. Like all of that was just a test, right? And now I'm just using all of that into this new era and this new energy that I've got. It's, it's just crazy. It's day and night from last year, even this time last year to now, it's, it's day and night. And, you know, I'm in a better position.

29:30 I just want to be the best version of myself. And I want to inspire, you know, young female DJs coming through that there is a place in this male dominated industry. There's a place for everyone. And a lot of, you know, I get a lot of older ladies as well that come up to me like, oh, you've inspired me to teach you like in their 50s and like, you go girl. Yeah, like it. It's amazing. It's amazing to see and, and I just, you know, I'm going to stay on this path now and find in my faith. I truly believe that, that, that God has thrown some crazy tests my way and, and I'm still here, you know, and I'm still here and I'm still, I'm thriving now. I'm not surviving.

30:11 Right. Do you feel, you know, it's it's a a weird play, like even for me as a content creator in the space or whatever. Do you feel pressured sometimes to be that representation because you are in this game so early and because you have the title of being, you know, the first woman with defected? And is that a title that sometimes you wish you could just, you know, put on PTO for a while? Yeah, yeah, it's it not so much now, but I feel like, you know, in the early days of defected, you know, because it was the fans that that called me queen of defected. You know, defected have never used that. I've never even, those words haven't even come out my mouth on any of my social media.

31:01 So I felt an incredible lot of pressure on my shoulders to to live up to that. And, you know, for me, it was about breaking those glass ceilings and kicking the door open and leaving it open for for anyone that that wanted to come through and kind of be in the gang, You know, because there's there's so much stigma around female DJs and the challenges and you know, it's, but there's a place for everyone in this industry, you know, and I feel like the diverse lineups, I feel like they're slipping a bit for sure. You know, defected. I was the only female DJ on defected lineups for nearly ten years.

31:44 Wow, I didn't even blink an eyelid. That was just that was the normal, right? That was the norm. And it was only having these conversation and it was actually Jaguar and and Annie Mac that that started kicking off the the conversation. And then I had to reflect and I was like, Oh my goodness, right? Like we need to make changes. It's such a touchy thing. It's something that I dance around because my audience of this podcast is predominantly male. Yeah. And there's a way to talk about these things where you hopefully keep the door open for them to listen to, to be receptive to it. So it's something that I feel like I constantly struggle with. And I am very appreciative of those.

32:25 Someone, you know, Rachel, from Support women DJs who takes a very bold approach. And that's so needed. But I feel like I have to find my voice in this in a different way. And something that's been important for me. I have this event, Chicago Music Nexus, Rachel came out to it. It's we're starting, you know, business music business conference here in Chicago. We're growing it. For me, it was like, OK, I'm not going to talk about these issues on the panel, but I'm going to make sure that the panels are ultra diverse, just inherently, intrinsically. And so I think there's a lot of talk and talk is important, but then the implementation is where we fall short or it's just for optics or like you said, it'll happen for a while and then it kind of falls by the wayside again. And and then like the other part of this is as a woman, I feel like you're always too much something for someone. Either you're too sexy or you don't sex it up enough for your, do you?

33:22 You do too much of this or not enough of that. And so you're constantly just like kind of moving within this like box. And it's like, God, what lever do I pull where I'm not going to piss people off, but I'm going to do the right thing. Do you ever feel trapped in that way? Yeah, I mean, I feel like I gatekeeps the industry for for years and years and years, you know, it kept coming up in in a lot of interviews, like, how do you feel about being a female DJ? And it's like, you know, when I first started out, the whole gender thing wasn't even an issue. I just wanted to be respected as an artist and I still fly that flag very, very high. But as time has gone on and you can't ignore the, the, the data, I think it was like 27% of women get booked on, you know, Tier 1 and Tier 2 of festivals.

34:10 Like that's shocking because it's not about, you know, and then you'll, you'll see this arguments of, well, you should book on talent. Of course you should, but also for, for the culture to move on, we also need to have diverse line UPS, you know, and I feel like around those conversations, kind of 2021-2022, we came out the gates and I was saying, you know, not necessarily 5050, but I saw an improvement, which is great. And now I'm looking at the, you know, the young dudes that are coming through and this whole UK movement. And I'm looking at the lineups and it's all dudes. And that's just not OK. It's not OK, you know, and I feel like they're either inexperienced in putting lineups together or that's their management, who knows? But we have to keep banging the door of diverse lineups. It's super important, you know, and, and I've kind of got a theory.

35:08 I had this theory of why female DJ's might not get booked for big for big festivals and promoters book ticket selling artists. There was another crazy data start of there was like, I mean, you'd have to Fact Check to me on this, but like 20% of females are producers. You know, I looked at the track source 100 and top 150 and there was only two females in that. And it was RA and Kathy Brown who were both vocalists, you know, and that actually inspired me because I want to be in that top 100 next year, you know, and the DJ Mag top 100, you know, that's been, that's been a hot topic for for many, many years, right.

35:58 But if the data is showing that there is a small 9 minority of female producers, then we need to make more music because bookers aren't going to book non ticket sellers. They might, you know, for a warm up slot, but if they're going to book a headline slot, you've got to be able to sell tickets. So I stand on both sides. Sure. You know, I see both sides of the argument. Yeah, well, the the thing about and track stack, good friends of mine and collaborators, you know, they talk about the power of the peer-to-peer network of sending your, your music to peers, right. And so like you're talking about women being producers, that is a way for your music to reach dance floors before you physically do.

36:45 Absolutely. And and so that is a really important component. I'm going to have to look up that data because that's that's very, very interesting. Lady of the house, they posted it. OK, they do great. Work they do. They do, yeah, yeah. Leveraging the peer-to-peer network. I mean, they call it a boys club for a reason. They're sending each other stuff. You know, they have their own little. I mean, I mean, women just have to. And they are, they are. I'm not saying that we don't have the same, you know, strength and numbers or whatever, but yeah, that's a, that's a really good theory. Yeah, I mean talent shines through, you know, But I feel like everyone say like a merge emerging talent, everyone's just in a rush, you know, they don't they the lost of even the art of of warm up.

37:34 Now, you know, I I put a all female tour together. It's called Cloud 9 coming out of lockdown in 2022. And I thought, you know what, I'm just going to give a platform for, you know, these, these local female DJs and they were banging it out before I went on and I was like, Oh my God, like this is we have a problem that that are of the warm up DJ is pretty much extinct now. COVID, it so much was lost because you had people who were learning during that time, got opportunities, maybe never went to a warm up set before because they were just showing up for headliners when they were clubbing.

38:16 Absolutely. Where did they didn't learn? They learned from the Internet. Yeah, exactly. So that's another reason, again, when I'm doing this 555, not long tour, because there are so many records that I've collected over the years, I just don't get to play as a headliner anymore. That's. What I was going to ask what what can you do in a 5 hour set that you can't do in a standard set? I mean, just starting off almost. I had this thing in lockdown called Sam's Jams, which was a Sunday session, two hours and I would just play like R&B or you know, 90s house and it was beautiful. And we and I built up a really beautiful community with that. So I almost want to go because that was really fun. Again, going back to doing fun stuff because there is so much pressure as a headline DJ now, you know, there's pressure to sell tickets.

39:08 Even on my last U.S. tour, you know, I come out of the gates, the the ticket sales are great. And then we're watching it every week and I'm like, Oh my God. And then it makes you think, do I still have pulling power in the States? Because really, I'm not known as a producer, right? I made it as a DJI didn't have to make music again. It's a different era. Whereas now, you know, I'm writing an album and I'm, you know, just did some sessions in LA couple of weeks ago. And, you know, finding my creativity again is such a beautiful thing. And now I actually want to make records. And I don't care if no one buys them. I don't care if anyone likes them. This is me, my love letter to the world, you know, and just being super proud of everything that I put out.

39:53 So with 555, it's it's playing those those deep house records where I used to warm up. I was a warm up DJ. Yeah. And I've warmed up for Kenny Dope. I've warmed up for Frankie Knuckles, you know, Dennis Ferrell, Louis Louis Vega, you know, I've warmed up for all my heroes. So everyone has to start somewhere, right? And I just remember those times being so fun, being so nervous warming up for like Frankie Knuckles, like, Oh my God, what am I going to play? So just going back to that. That time of building a journey, that's what I pride myself on. You know, doing those all night long sets in Ibiza for seven hours. It was in a bar, You didn't pay to get in the bar, you could come in and out freely.

40:36 So I always had this tactic. It's like if I seen someone with half a drink, I'll be like, right, I need to put an anthem on now. So and then watch them go to the bar and buy a drink. Everything was so strategic of playing those long sets, but now it's just really with my heart and my sleeve and just playing what I want to play with to actual pressure because I'm building the night from start to finish and you just vibe off the vibe, you know, And it's not you know, you've got two hours slot and you want to play all your best records in those two hours and you have to Rd. test some of your own records and that can be quite nerve racking doing that as well and building it up to that point and just five hours, just me, the dance floor and just having fun with.

41:20 It. Yeah, Again, it gives you time to settle in. Yeah. I mean, I'm not an artist, but the thing that I can compare it to is doing these podcasts versus doing festival interviews. Those always give me whatever the female version of blue balls is. I'm just like. It was like, you know what I mean? I was like, that wasn't enough. That wasn't good. Like that was like a 3 minute like, hey, how you doing sort of thing? And this is so much more rewarding to be able to exercise your craft and, you know, whether it's music or getting people to open U about, you know, their lives, That's amazing. And you're here for Elro, which is also like the environment lends itself to, to how you play too, which I always think is like, if I was an artist, I would enjoy that so much because like, you just know going into an Elro set, you're going to be dancing with the chicken.

42:11 There's going to be wild moments that you, you know. Carnage, It's absolute carnage. I did. I mean, I've played for Elro many times, but I did universe with them and one of my friends was like, you know, she played the first week and I was like, oh, you know, what do you what do you play? Or you know, what's the vibe for Elro? I be thug. I hadn't done an LRA Ibiza before and she was like just enjoy it. So because she when she went back, the first week she didn't enjoy it and then the second week she went back and there was a couple of other DJs that said the same thing. So I just enjoyed it and I had like fancy balls coming in my face and inflatables in my face and I was just like, it was so on top.

42:51 It was absolute carnage. But I loved playing. I did a completely different set, you know, I played a bit more tech house for Elro and it was so fun. Yeah, I'm really, really looking forward to to playing Chicago Elro. Yeah, it's really a good time. I'm someone who's doesn't. I love a themed party. I don't need all of like the bells and whistles. I'm there for the music. But Elro just like puts a smile on your face no matter who you are. And it doesn't get old either. Like you can go to a million Elro experiences and have have an amazing time. Okay, last question for you. I mean, you have, we're on the cusp of 2026 almost. When this comes out, it'll be 2026. What does, what does success look like for you in this in this new chapter?

43:39 Well, I think, you know, the most successful thing that's happening in my life now is to stay sober is to is to stay on this on this path. And you know, some such great things have have happened to me this year career wise. But the biggest thing is actually how resilient I am. I'm learning so much about myself and I'm also learning what serves my soul and, and what doesn't. You know, I just did six weeks back-to-back touring from New Zealand to Australia, Bali, then straight to the States and it killed me. You know, it affected me mentally, physically. I'm still, you know, not feeling 100% from that. So on reflection, it's like I can't do that anymore. And that in itself by saying I don't want to do that anymore. I don't want to carry on.

44:29 Just running myself into the ground with back-to-back touring is so exhilarating. So next year, I mean, every year I say I want to slow down, right? But now it's I'm in such a great position where, you know, the the team that I've built now are incredible. You know, the vision, we're all on the same page with the vision. I can't wait to see 555. What, how that unfolds next year as well. I'm so excited that I've just got a little side hustle. You know, I've got, I've got a project to look forward to. I've started writing records for my album Sky's the Limit. You know, there's going to be a merch range. I love fashion. So putting that into that, you know, we, we, we're having some pretty big talks with Live Nation about doing my own Wellness rave, if you like, which would be so cool. I'm bringing out a field divine electrolyte, which I'm working on at the moment as well, because I have electrolytes on my rider.

45:27 Just just staying positive, you know, and, and just remembering how I felt last this time last year and how I'm feeling on top of the world, if you like, right now, this time this year. So it's just about personal growth, carrying on this deep spiritual journey that I'm on and, you know, finding faith. You know, I pray everyday, I read the Bible everyday and just, I know that God has a plan for me now, you know, and that's that I found a lot of inner peace, yeah, through faith. So I just know that the big guy's got me now. So everything that I do just to have a smile on my face, you know, and kindness in my heart. And I feel like that's that's how everyone should live their life.

46:10 Yeah, I think that'll resonate with a lot of people. Yeah. Thank you for doing this. It's been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.