Inside Beatport's #1 Selling Label ft. Mark Knight | EF EP 156

0:00 I was in construction and I remember being on this roof, we were freezing cold and like, man, I can do better than this. You know, I can do better than this and that's no disrespect, but I know there's something in me. It's bigger than this. Football wasn't going to get to where I wanted it to go and music was going quite well and I was like, I've got to chase my dream, I've got to go for it. And you have to make a decision and take risks and dream big because you'll only become who you dream. Everyone wants the dream, but almost nobody wants the work behind it. Mark Knight built Beeport's top selling label in that gap, and in this episode, he shows you exactly what lives there. This is elevated frequencies.

0:44 Listen, you've had like the same job for a very long time. I have, so I'm curious. I was thinking I was like how should I open this podcast? What's the coolest or weirdest non music job you've ever had? Well, I've had a lot of jobs before music. I was in construction. I was playing football when I was in construction and I did a bunch of things. And I think when you're growing up, you don't need a plan straight away. You don't know. You don't know, you don't know what you like, what's going to work, what's not going to work. And I think it's about trying a bunch of stuff that you think you might like and then working it out.

1:26 Too many kids, there's so much pressure on kids nowadays to study for something, to have a plan, how you don't know anything. You know, you don't need to know anything unless you've got a very specific, I guess sporting or academic you really, really want to chase, then go try some some stuff you like, some stuff you won't like, and then you work out what's going to work for you. But I think there comes a point in time where you have to make a decision and you have to make a plan. And I think around the age of 30 is really where you need to get a grip of where you want to be in life and what your pathway looks like. And I think the great thing about having done that, having lots of jobs before, I did music all pretty much in the same area in construction.

2:15 And, and I remember one time being on this roof, we were freezing cold and like, man, I can do better than this. You know, I can do better than this. And that's no disrespect, but I know there's something in me. It's bigger than this. And football wasn't going to get to where I wanted it to go. And music was going quite well. And I was like, I've got to chase my dream. I've got to go for it. And you have to make a decision and take risks and dream big because you'll only become who you dream and what you dream you will become. Sorry, you'll get that right. And I did that.

2:55 And I think having had those jobs, it gave me the real value of money because music can happen very quickly in a career path in music and happen very, very quickly. You can go from nothing to massive in months. Now, you know, in the digital world, exposure is it's straight, it can be very instant. And I think when you understand the value of money and what it looks and feels like to work really hard, and when you get an opportunity to do something you love and you earn lots of money, you should respect that. You should really respect that and understand the difference, what it's like to not have that.

3:35 So yeah, I did a whole bunch of crazy stuff, you know, but I enjoyed it. I enjoyed all of it. I think it makes you the person you are. I think to having done just one thing will make me a little bit too narrow. So yeah, I think it having had lots of different jobs in the early days really gave me the respect I needed to take the music industry seriously. Sure, construction's hard labour. It's hard work, it's a lot of fun. I love every minute of it. I mean, I, I was bricklaying when I left school. I went to a construction college and I learned construction and I loved it. I genuinely loved it. And I think if music finished, I'd probably go back to that. I really see music as a very practical thing. I see it like construction in many ways. You know, when you build a record, you're very much like the project manager of that record. Now you need to know what you're building. Let's say the plans say you're going to build a house, right? You're not going to start building a house and end up with a block of flats, a block of apartments. You've got a plan to build a house, and then you bring into that project all the right people. You need to reach your desired objective. So you're bringing a plumber, you're bringing an electrician, you're bringing a car.

4:50 And it's the same thing when you make a record. If you need strings, you bring in a string arrange. If you need keys and you can't play, you bring in a keyboard player and you manage that project. You have the vision for its outcome. You're looking at the drawings, and drawings are in your head, you have a vision for them. So I use that. It's very relatable. I think the crossover, I've really used that to my advantage. I very see, I very much see music as a practical thing. Yes, there's a lot of creativity that goes around it, but you have to underpin that with a degree of structure and planning and an organization otherwise goes on and on and on. You know how it becomes a very blank piece of paper that goes on and on. So I think having had that background as well gives me a relatability to to, you know, bring that into music. And I was always in, I ended up being, being construction management.

5:44 And it's about getting the best out of people, various people from various walks of life to reach your objective. And again, I, I brought that into, into music along with, you know, being captain of football and all that. And you know, I have to always like to be captain or the leader. You know, I always want to lead by example. It's always show, don't tell. You know, it's very easy to tell someone, hard to show someone and lead by example. And I think when you get to management or captain, you know that that that responsibility again, that the idea of of leading is transferable and, and to other things. I've tried to draw on all the things in my background and then bringing them into music to make my my own career unique. Yeah, I remember the last time we talked, you told me it's not talent that's gotten you to where it is. It's it is the project management. It's the hard work sort of thing. And it's interesting because I, I just posted something on Instagram a couple days ago that got, I got a lot of heat, which doesn't bother me, but I got a lot of heat talking about an artist that I worked with who toured all weekend, showed up to our Monday morning meetings at 9:00 AM. Like she was like, it was fun.

6:52 Like she had, she got full night's rest, even though I know she didn't. And the result was the work we did together moved so much quicker because we never let the momentum die, but she was on it. And so a lot of people said, oh, you're promoting unhealthy standards, whatever. But then it was interesting because a lot of big DJs that I respect were liking the post. So I was like, I should ask Mark, building the empire that you've built when you were, when you were in the early days, how many days did you actually take off? None. And you still and still like I tried to take two days off this week, try to take this week off because half term and to spend some time with my son. When you're on the business, there are no days off because it it's on you, you know, you've got lots of people looking to you for leadership, for guidance and that never ends. You know, it's like, I know you're off, but it's what happens all the time.

7:45 And that's, you know, you have to accept that if that's, if you own it, you've got to open it. You really have you got to own that responsibility. So I never took any days off at all. And even now, you know, it doesn't matter where I am this weekend, Monday morning, 9:00, let's go because always show, don't tell. If I can show the staff that I can be in the office on Monday morning. Look, I don't care what you do the weekend, That's entirely up to you. Work hard, play hard. That's totally cool. We're in the we're in the nightlife industry, you know, turn up Monday, let's go. And that only happens. You have to set that. You have to set that example. So again, it's to what about what we talked about earlier, you know, lead from the front show, give off all the right examples and, and, and the right set the right standards and then every and that just becomes the standard.

8:35 And everyone just expects that. Because if Mark can do it, then I'll do it. If he can be in Sao Paulo on Saturday night and in the office in London on Monday morning at 9:00. So can I? Hmm. Yeah, standards. That's that's the thing. And I think, I think people set these arbitrary like lines for themselves, like, well, when I get to this level, I'll do it. But I it's so important to set those standards when you have no motion, because then you're going to hold them as you progress. Absolutely. Yeah, you have to, you really have to balance the two facets of of the music in, you know, the music piece. It is music and it is business. It is both. That's what's called the music business. It's not just called music. It's called both. And you have to understand that.

9:16 You have to mix creativity with practicality and hard work and ethics and standards. And if you do that, you get the most out of creativity. If it lives in this kind of ethereal world where nothing really matters, you're never really going to get the most out of it. And the the key is to balance both. And something that I've realized about myself the longer I I work for myself is that my capacity grows. I feel like every six months I kind of check in and I'm like, wow, I was able to fit that much into a day. And I think when people aren't doing that, they're not trying, they can't understand that it's possible.

9:58 You, I mean, you're like a gym rat, You DJ, you run a major, massive independent label. Talk to me about your capacity. Like, how do you how do you fit it all into a day? By having lists upon lists, you know, every day I have a list and I've put a time next to it when I'm going to do that or I know I'll do like the morning and the afternoon. And that's what gets me through a whole load of stuff. Like I am mega organized. That's what allows me to do 57,000 things a day. I love that. I love coming away from the I've been to the gym, I've spent time with my son, I've now loads of work. I've been creative. I've done all, I play paddle, I played golf, I've done it all and I, I cannot sit still.

10:44 You know, it's a bit of, I have to do 57 things a day. I really do. I have to play gold from paddle and I go to the gym everyday and I have to do loads of work and I have to spend loads of quality time with my family. I have to make it all work and that makes me feel complete. And I do that by being really organised and really structured. And then I get the best out of every minute, out of every day. And that's makes me feel alive and feels like I, you know, we're only here for a short amount of time. Why waste time? You know, why? Why not eat the most out of every minute? Yeah, I think, I think there's something to be said about how technology has stolen hard time and attention, right? And it, it makes things seem so like I, no one really audits their day and how much time they're not doing things and they're just mindlessly scrolling or whatever it is.

11:34 And I feel like being in my mid 30s, I kind of just skated like that being my fate. You know, I got, I, I had one foot in tech and one out. But I do feel like it's so much hard. That's why I think there's like this capacity issue. People don't realize how much time they're not. Yeah, it's very true. Yeah. That you say to audit your own days to go. In all fairness, how much time do I spend doing that? We'll do it. It's just a thing, you know, sometimes it's just a need a minute to switch off, but it's about limiting that and sometimes just checking out of it. Go rather than delete Instagram, delete for two weeks. Oh God, wow. I don't miss it at all.

12:14 Or if you have to, like I do that on a Reg, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll check out and just go, Right. I'm not doing it. Delete it because you go down the rabbit hole of whole load of nonsense. I mean, I like some of it. I'll be honest, I learn a lot from it. I do. I genuinely see it. It's almost like it's the mod they read in magazines. But as long as you can kind of get fit into, you know, a period of time and you disconnect and utilise it and you gain from it and then I think great. But you know, it is easy to just get lost in sort of scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. So I can't say anything. If you balance it in the right way and you get something. I've learned loads. I've I've learned loads of stuff. I know I never I'm not a reader.

12:56 I don't. I think I've read 11 book in my entire life. Is it just because it's you have to sit down and you can't? You don't like sitting down reading? It I have got and I yeah, I'm a bit dyslexic and I really struggle with stuff like that, but I just don't have the capacity and the patience for that yeah. So I like the fact I do get lots of information that kind of suits me, but there was a finite amount of time you should give it really. Otherwise it you lose time that you should be being, you know, positive, proactive and and functional. So yeah, it's a, it's a good way, good way of thinking of that. But audit your day to think, OK, realistically, how much time did I spend? Did I spend 1 hours or was it 2? Maybe cut that down to half an hour because you'll still get the same thing out of it and you'll get a lot more done for yourself I guess.

13:41 Yeah, 100% you. Well, Tool Room, I think I counted 45 plus releases last year, Yeah. Oh, at least yeah. At least that is so much music, quality music. Thank you. There's so much bad music being uploaded everywhere every single day. What's the stat now? I'm sure you know how many how many records a day. I'm mind blowing him out. I don't even know. It's something that would just blow your mind, yeah. So so what's your relationship with the streaming landscape? Because again, you're putting out so much quality music, but you're up against so much slop. Look, I think if you're the best, you'll be OK, right? And that's the challenge, of course, that it is tougher now because you've got to cut through all of that. But if you build a team and you build a sound and you build continuity and you build an audience, then you're going to be OK.

14:41 But I think you need to do all of those things. It's not just a case of uploading and hoping for the best because it won't cut through. You have to invest in it as as a concept more than just putting out records. You have to build A-Team that are all doing things expertly. You know, you have to get people in marketing, you have to get people in, in A&R in, in account in all the things that make a record and, and the functionality of releasing a record, correct. And we've built a brilliant team and over the years through consistency, through this absolute mad endeavour to get the most out of every record. We're a bit over the top about it, but. What's What's over the top?

15:25 Well, I mean, we are, I'm especially me, I'm fastidious about making sure every record can be as good as they can in terms of sonics, in terms of the arrangements, in terms of sound design hooks. So I spend a lot of time, of my own time getting the stems in on people's records, working on them, sending them back and selling. I see it more like this, you know. Can we roll with this? Got any thoughts? Do you think this improves it? Let me know because I'm only as good as my last record. And that is the key. And I think we talked about it before rightly about having your own sound. That's the greatest accolade you can have in in ANR to have a people write a record.

16:08 So I've written a record. It sounds very tool room. That's as good as it gets. And that's through years and years of consistency of doing the same thing over and over and over really, really well and, and marketing well, bringing it to an audience in the right way and making sure that you keep that audience engaged with with quality music. So yeah, it means a lot to me. It means everything to me that that each record that we release, whether it's we try and do one a week on tour and on tour and tracks. So Oh yeah, 100% yeah. We look we because we write dance music and we are club focused. It's like lighting the fire and you have to keep throwing coals on it all the time to keep it warm.

16:53 Our business is very frontline. There's a few records that pop off and you get longer lead towels, but we're not trying to write find hits. We're just trying to put out great club records and to sustain the the revenue we need to, to make our business function. It needs a lot of cold thrown on the fire on a weekly basis. I mean some, I mean really you know in the morning time we should spend more time building longer lead campaigns on the right record and we do and we do. But because now you kind of evaluate the success of record over 2-3 years. We still live in the colour Beatport model a little bit where it's kind of a four to five week does it work type thing where that isn't really the landscape, but we've sort of built our business around that.

17:41 And I just like releasing records every week and having loads of great records to not only play because that's the buzz. Like I'm playing tonight in Spy Bar and I would say 80% of what I'm going to play tonight, maybe 90% is either mine or on tour room. And that's that's means everything to me that those records that we're putting out, I'm standing behind on plan. I cannot wait to play. So I'd like to constantly update my sets for the our own music. So I think it's a combination of a bit, you know, fulfilling my own personal endeavour and the way we've we structured the business. We have to put out a lot of music. We do, we run pretty hard. We love it. How many full time employees does Tool Room have?

18:23 24 Holy yeah. I don't know if I've talked to anyone else on this podcast with a, with a label that big to my knowledge. I mean, you're really operating like, I don't know what's, you know, you've got your majors, right? And then everything else is considered indie. But that's weird because like how you're operating and maybe how like some of my friends who have labels are operating, you're both in the same category. And that just doesn't make sense. Well, I think there's, I think the difference between having a record label and a record company. Like we could start a record label right now. Let's go start a record label. God name, let's go. A record company needs structure, it needs people, it needs investment, it needs strategy. That's the difference.

19:09 And that's where that's what separates record labels and there's thousands of them and record companies, whether you're an Independent Record company or a major record company, I think that's where you get a difference. And there's a different approach as well between a major and independent, but we are a very big Independent Record company. Yeah, I guess. I guess the the the biggest difference is too is what else are you doing outside of just releasing music, right? Like you have, you do a lot of artist development. We do that. That's our because two things. We don't have a big checkbook. We have, we've self funded, we self distribute.

19:50 We are absolutely independent on every level. We are proud to be independent. We don't through go through distributor. We do our own distribution. We do, we do our own funding. We've never had a penny of investment. Everything has come from our own momentum. So we don't have a big checkbook and we don't have a big events brand to say I'll give you 10 gigs if you give me a record. We survive off integrity. We're as good as our integrity attracts records because. Wow, I'm playing loads of touring records. I want to put a record on touring. That's our approach. That's why we have to be red hot all the all the time because we have got nothing to fall back on. Like to be Beatport #1 selling label. That's that's our biggest shop window, that's our driver. That's what sells.

20:39 You know, I want to be part of that. A record label with Scout, but yet that really care about the detail, that understand the nuance, the cultural significance of what we're doing. So that's where we exist on this very small lane of like, we don't, can't pay you massive advances and we can't give you loads of gigs, but we we do and we love what we do. And we'll put everything behind you and we'll, we'll back it with our heart and soul and we'll, you know, we'll match it with our input, with marketing advice, all of those things. We'll, we'll give you that. But if you want 10 gigs, you're talking to the wrong, you know, you're talking to the wrong label. If you want loads of money, we can't do that, you know, because I'd rather spend that money on marketing your record, giving it and giving it a an identity and giving it visibility than wasting all the money on advance. You're going to get the money anyway. Look, we aren't we won't be where we are 23 years later if we didn't pay people again.

21:40 We are absolutely fastidious about paying people because if I didn't pay you, you're not going to give me another record. How can I say, Olivia, can I have another record, please? Didn't pay me for the last one like, and that means everything to me to stand behind that. Not only that, we did to the best of our ability musically, but we paid everyone and we did everything correctly. It's a relationship business and people know where to find you. I mean, you're not hiding in the castle, you know, being the CEO of, I mean, you're literally playing gigs, you're out and about. And so I think about that a lot as I do some of my different ventures. You know, I'm building a music business conference. Your personal brand and your reputation is on the line all the time.

22:22 And I think that's also something maybe some people don't think about when they're first, you know, when you're just starting a record label, you're testing waters, whatever, that's one thing. But like, that is one of the biggest things in this industry is your reputation and. It's everything, right? Yeah. And if that's not pristine or you're not doing, you're not making things right when you when you need to, you're, you're not going to have that success. No, our longevity, your reputation I think affords you longevity. If you maintain that and you're a good person, you know, and you can do it yourself way. And you do think like the word that drives me is integrity through everything. If I do thing from my heart that I believe in, then I feel like I'm always getting it right. I might not get it financially right, but if I did it from here and I believe in it, then it's right for me and I can stand behind that.

23:10 If I do things that I try to cut corners or do things that I think will get a commercial shortcut, you know, it's visible. I think it, it looks transparent. I like to do things. I like to have big records that get there through merit, through their own natural momentum and. I feel like the circle you probably keep, they're not going to let, they're going to, they're going to call you out on your if you take a shortcut. Oh, exactly. Yeah. Oh, listen, we have a we can't, you can't kid the kids, right? You know, they, they see straight through that. And we're not about that. But yeah, going back to it, we we have a, a Bigfoot holding artist development again, because it feeds into our model. We're about finding new talent and growing talent and building success, not buying success.

23:57 And I think that approach again gives you longevity. We have the Tourim Academy, which is our our music education business. We do sample packs, we do management, we do publishing. So we're kind of the 360 company. So if you, you, you come on board that you know will give you, we'll try and help you in every area of, of your development through A&R, through education, through management, through publishing. We try to be the one stop shop in in all things music. Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, on top of doing all of that and then being an artist yourself, going back to that post I said I made that people were upset about the topic of burnout, burnout kept coming up. And I have this very nuanced take on burnout. I feel like it happens when you're not aligned with what you're doing.

24:50 And the only time I've ever truly felt like burnout is because something didn't feel right. And when I made the adjustment, I the work didn't bother me. I can work seven days a week, I do work seven days a week and I love it. But if something's like not working and I'm just barking up the wrong tree, that's when the when the burnout creeps in. So what? How do you feel about burnout as someone who's doing all these things? I, I try and balance and the older I've got, the more I try and balance my time with disconnecting from it. So when I come back, I feel invigorated. So I have to like first thing I do, the more I take my son to school and I go to the gym for an hour, that's non negotiable. Apps don't bother phoning me.

25:37 There's the house is on fire. I'm actually, I'm not going to pick up because that's my time. Like give me an hour and I'll give you the world, right? So first and foremost, I start the day like that. Like I'm going to do something for me first because the minute I step out of this gym, phone's going to go. Everyone wants everything OK, but I feel like I'm ready to now do that. So I think it's how you structure yourself again to give yourself maximum potential. I think if you don't do those things, eventually over time that chips away. You might not feel it in one go, but erodes away your your drive and and you know, your ambition. So I think it's about balancing this. And in the evening, I'm going to go and do this for me and make sure you do that, whether it's you or the family or whatever that you, you take time out and say no, that's it. Because my phone, I'll get phone calls or text. That's why I don't have WhatsApp. I don't have WhatsApp at.

26:37 All yeah, I noticed that. No, WhatsApp is like, I don't understand if we can just iMessage, why does everybody use WhatsApp? How did they convince us all that that's the superior product? Honestly, that that that's that's the best thing I've ever heard, right? I totally. That's exactly how I feel about. It so funny. Why? It's like having emails and another e-mail. I don't use emails, you use another. E-mail when? I get especially pissed when someone from my country whatsapps me. I'm like, what is the point you have? IMessage just saying it's the same thing. Olivia. I'm so glad I came. Yeah. But on that note, thank you very much for joining us, Sarah. Stay tuned for the next one. That's so funny. I've. I was literally seeing them like, oh, it was a regular iMessage.

27:19 What a what a treat. Yeah, I don't have to check another. Yeah. But yeah, exactly, 'cause I like, again, it's loads of portals of connection to other people and people and access to you. So I'm like, look, put it all in one place. Like yeah, I don't want it or don't need it all over. Huge. That's huge. I think that's why people get so overwhelmed with the Instagram and stuff too. I do. I don't answer any of my DMS 'cause I'm like, I can't just e-mail me. That's what I say. I say. E-mail, e-mail, got a log of it and that's how we do business, right? That's it. We don't have it on Facebook, but I've got Facebook. I have, I'm really, really basic in that respect. But again, that allows, if I have things all over it, it doesn't help with my structure. And then I think all those things just drain you a little bit because I'll get texts at 3:00 in the morning. You'll make this amazing record.

28:06 Like it's 3:00 in the morning, like I'm sure it's good wait and it's Sunday night. I'm sure it could wait till Monday morning, but I try and make sure I disconnect myself and don't engage in in those times and go right. Well, this is like family time now. I'm with my son. I'm doing something or at football or whatever and then when I I'm in it, I'm in it. I'm full bored again. Like when I'm in the studio, I work for four or five hours and that's it. You don't need to work for 17 hours if you're working on every 17 hours. It's not right. Yeah. It's like if you do a jigsaw puzzle and try and jam the pieces together. You put the wrong pieces together when they go together. Easy. You'll do it in two hours, right. And I think that's the key in life and everything. Just get everything.

28:47 Not everything, every is organised. You don't have those problem where you're jamming pieces into A to another. Easier said than done, but that's the that's at least a theory. Yeah, no, I I think that's great advice. The formula is different for everybody. I I learned that my mornings I have to work because that's because, listen, music industry, everybody's up late at night, so that's when I get bombarded. So I'm like, OK, between 6:30 and 9:00 AM, I'm going to get so much done because no one's talking to me. And then I can go do my other things. But the formula is different for everyone. I just, you know, it's just been really irking me getting that so much feedback on that post this other this past week because like everybody I interview on this show, they're just going full throttle, like and yes, there's boundaries, whatever, but this is this is what it takes. You know, like you get nothing for nothing, and if you want something bad enough, you got to do what you got to do, right? Yeah, You know, because if you don't, someone else will. Head off and they and they will.

29:53 That's right. It's easy to put on a post. Oh, you shouldn't be doing that, but that's probably because you're not doing it. Yeah, and you probably would want to do it. But hard's hard. Hard's not impossible, but most people give up on hard. And it's easy to just put some in a comment. It's a lot harder to go and make it happen. Yeah, yeah. So Tool Room has this amazing Chicago connection. Jean Faris, good good friend of mine, released so frequently on the label and there's so much Chicago influence in in the music that you put out. How did that come about? And was that like an early, like were those early influences when you started Tool Room or is that developed over time? Chicago is the home of house, you know, and I don't think, I think it's hard not to resonate with this place and the people in it because without what you guys did, we won't be having this conversation.

30:48 So I think, I don't know, it just feels very natural. I mean, Gene's a great friend of mine. In fact, we're playing golf together on Monday. Are you? Yeah, we sit. Yeah, we sit. I can't wait actually. He's a big golfer. He is and was the first time I've actually got around to playing. I don't know, I just, I think it wasn't intentional. It just happened naturally. And I think that's because I guess our energies align and our. Yeah, it's never one of those what we have to go and get some Chicago if we end up end up We were signing John Summit right at the very, very beginning. We did loads of his tracks as exclusive on compilations we were Which? Which ones? It's a very good question if I.

31:29 Can remember. Yeah, but we George I think was one who works for us, who's head of music was one of the first guys to ever sign any John Summit records. So yeah, we were working with John since day doc, but again, that's that just happens very organically and naturally there's. It's not crazy, you know, it's just, it's so strange because you know, going to Europe or going to the UK, dance music is so integrated into just the culture of the city. And it's not like segregated where I feel like here you go to a dance music club or it's not a dance music club and you know what dance music is or you think it's like EDM, you think it's like screechy noises that you, you know what I mean? Like there's such a lack of general understanding here, which is one of the things that I mean, it's, I think it's starting to change, but.

32:21 It comes with time, right? And exposure, yeah. And refinement because the, you know, the obvious things are the things that people tend to integrate with or, or interface with initially. The more cultured things and the more sophisticated things take a bit of time. Again, it's not, you know, don't get me wrong, you don't walk down every street and everyone knows everything about tech house in the UK or, or, or all the different genres. Far from it, but I guess the culture has been more present for longer. So it'll happen. It'll get there. I mean, and that's the exciting thing, I think about America. You've still got huge cities here that haven't even got a scene yet. You've still got all that headroom for growth.

33:02 And that's what it's exciting that we're almost overexposed to it now. It's the other way around. Like the kids are less bothered about it now because it's something their parents did. It's not that cool anymore. Or less cool. Weird. Because, well, we're living through a really interesting phase of dance music now. You've got all the people of sort of my age, 40s and 50s are going back out again. They've had kids and they were like, they were there at the beginning. Do you know what? Not quite ready to hang up my hat yet. I'm up for another go. I can't go out every week and I need to go out in the right context. But there's a huge scene for people going out. It's all daytime parties. Daytime parties.

33:44 Which is, which is great. Because you can get home at 10:00. Infantry in the UK, that's the biggest movement now. Like people an older generation going out, I guess right in the next chapter of what we started. It's really interesting and we have a label called Fools Paradise. And we just did our first show of fabric. We did daytime part. We sold it out. It was honestly, it's amazing because the older lot don't get to go out every week and they can't go every week. So when they go out, they'll bang up for it like every two o'clock people are having it, they'll tell you. And there's no phones, there's no the the culture of that. Because because they're proper training like. Yeah, well, we never have phones, you know, right. Right.

34:26 They've been in that. Sense I I would never think like myself to go out and film anything because I want to be in the moment. Like at no point do I ever go back to my phone for my memories. My memories are all here. There are all the best memories. Like, I don't think I've got a single photo of anything that happened in the 90s. And it was brilliant. Yeah, but that's what made it bad because they all the memories. And that's when you interact with people. Do you remember when we did this right? You don't get your phone down. Start exchanging photos. There's more magic to it when you just put when you recall it from memory. From memory and then you have to, you know, you have to socialise and, and and talk about that as opposed to looking at. Right, but. It's a bit and. There's no proof too, so it makes it more fun to to tell the stories, yeah.

35:10 Totally. So yeah, in the Uki guess it's it's the other end of the spectrum. It's a little bit overexposed. So the kids, it's not their first train of thought to, to to gravitate towards dance music. Yeah, there is still a big scene. And kids like, you know, like Max Dean and Luke Dean and Josh Baker and all those guys, Yes, they do an incredible job of talking to the kids now, which is brilliant. Like, my son's 14. He thought, oh, dad, you know, Jeff Baker, Yeah. And all that sort of thing. But you've got that going on at one end and then you've got the old lot going on. But the bit in the middle, you know, where if you haven't kind of grasped dance music, it's not as I guess it it, there's a bigger movement for Wellness in some respects than there is for for dance music at the moment.

36:00 But that will change. You know that that will change. But you know, I think to have that lack of cultural understanding in some ways is quite cool because at the other end, the overexposure is more of a battle and and less fun than an underexposure when you're trying to educate people because they're still, oh wow, I never knew I'd like this thing. It's a great perspective. Sometimes I do feel crazy, like the marketing agency and my client, you know, is I have a client that's a bank. And I do feel crazy trying to explain to them what I do in this world. Like it's just like, you could tell they're like, yeah, for sure. It sounds quick. I mean, they have no idea. Yeah. So there's a little bit of like, it's like a little crazy making.

36:42 But you're right at the same time, I guess I haven't thought about, you know, it's weird because you feel like you're running up against a brick wall sometimes trying to get more of the scene here and trying to get some of the respect. But it's always the people like from the UK, from Europe, who like give more respect to Chicago in particular because you're so integrated with the culture, you know, the roots versus like trying to convince, I don't know, a cafe here that they should do a pop up with dance music because it'll work, you know what I mean? Like there's from a business perspective, it's a little bit, it's just frustrating, but. It just takes time that you know and you can't, you can't move that along any quicker really. And I think if you try to force it, it's not natural. It'll get there.

37:29 I mean it's, it's incredible. I love coming here just because of the enthusiasm for for that. It's it's, it is niche and it is cult almost and people will like go for it. They love it. It's not like, oh, that's honest. Oh, like in London, there's 57 parties on every week and it's, you know, there's so much going on. It becomes almost a bit blase. So to have that where you've really got to go and fight, seek it out and it's a real commitment to to it, I think that's more exciting. Sure, I love that perspective. Is there anything that you haven't done yet that that you want to accomplish soon in your lifetime?

38:10 Going round, even at golf is is right up there and well, going out at even par is. Yeah. Is right up there as one of my real life goals at the moment, no. In terms of music, it's a good question. Do you know, I was actually thinking it the other day with this new record label got Fools paradise. I'm going to have a go. And this is the first time I've ever set public because I literally just come to me the other day because I was I was on Instagram and there seems to be a real obviously around the back off the back of a Michael Jackson movie. Lots of people dancing to tracks from off the wall.

38:52 I mean, after Wall, they have just game changer for me. Just, you know, Rod Temperton, Quincy Jones, the people involved in it, just the sheer musical prowess and people around that album. I thought I've got to have a gut writing, doing a band thing that that's making funk disco, but you know, within house. So I'm going to give that a go. Wow, give that a back. Thanks for sharing. That Well, do you know, I'm just coming to my, the other day I thought I need to do that. I need to, you know, write something like that, an album like that. And I've done one album. I'm going to do another album, but I think I'm going to do it more as a kind of band concept.

39:32 And again, it's going back to the, the, the construction thing is about now thinking about, OK, look, there's no point in me picking up the bass and trying to bring it. I need to find a great bass player, to find a great keyboard player, a great top line writer. And I've got my, I've got no idea. And I've been thinking about how I'm going to do it. But yeah, I'm going to give that a go. That's the off the top of my head. Just thought they'd come into my head the other day. I need to write a record like that. Speaking it into fruition, just do it. I love it. Well, why wouldn't I do it? Yeah, let's go and make it a thing. Well, check back, you know, a year or so from round. Right. Let me see if I can see if I can do it in a year. OK, right. All right, check in. Well, this is. And hold me to that. I will, I will. We'll have we'll have this evidence. Thank you for chatting with me.

40:16 This has been amazing. Thank you for having me again. It's been great. Thank you.