'I Turn Down More Gigs Than I Accept': The ANATTA Approach | EF EP 130

0:00 So does that mean that you've had to say no to things over the past year? Oh, a ton, yeah. Really. A lot, yeah, I think we've said. I think we say no more often than we say yes. I wonder how top DJs actually built their careers. I had to do 15 years of hard work to get any of the recognition that I wanted. Where I saw a turning point in my career is when I came true to myself. From marketing and mindset to networking and negotiation, I'm giving you the tools you need to build a lasting career in dance music. Give them bits of you and your everyday life. You have to change the way you view. The word no. Like me, I'm encouraged by it. Join me, Olivia Mancuso and industry leaders as we reveal what it really takes to turn your passion into profit. This is elevated frequencies.

0:49 Welcome to your weekly elevation, your dose of real strategies for real results in dance music. I'm Olivia. And today we're diving deep into one of the hardest skills any artist has to master. And it's the art of saying NO. No, Anada is back on the show, and since our last conversation, he's become a master class in strategic decision making. While most artists are kind of desperately chasing every opportunity that comes their way, Anata has learned to turn down bookings, even high Penguins, when they don't align with his long term vision. This level of discipline is what separates artists who build lasting careers from those who burn out chasing quick wins. We're exploring how he's evolved, his sound, his genius hack for creating better content, and the mindset shifts that have taken his career to the next level.

1:37 If you ever struggled with knowing which opportunities to take and which to walk away from, this conversation will change how you think about building your brand. So, so much has changed. And I think what was like spring of 2024, we, we talked last. I think so, yeah. So what's the biggest shift that's happened for you since then? I mean, I think I've just been fine tuning everything. Like I think I've been working on the music a lot and I have a bunch of like bigger label kind of signing coming up and obviously I've been playing like bigger events, playing EDC and Coachella and that sort of stuff now. So yeah, I think it's just been fine tuning and and continuing to grow.

2:18 Yeah, Coachella was big. Yeah, it was really cool. Well, how did that all come about? Because it was very on brand for you too. I, I, I don't really know, like what happened on the back end, but my manager just text me one day and he's like, keep it quiet, but we might get Coachella this year. And I was like, that's crazy. But yeah, I ended up working out. So I'm not entirely sure what happened on the back end or like how, how we got it. But it's cool to actually get like on the stage at Coachella with good pay. And like I, I was honestly kind of surprised. That's like a career milestone that so many DJs like, Like on a every DJs vision board I feel like. I think for, for me, like it was probably the biggest thing to take to my mom and be like, hey, look, I'm, I'm doing this now. But yeah, of course.

3:11 I mean, it's like one of the hardest, I think one of the hardest festivals to get on. And so now of course, like I'm happy I did it, but I, I want to play the Yuma now. Yeah, or. Like do lab or you know. It's almost like the anticipation of reaching a goal like that is more comfortable because you're still striving to it. But then you get it and you're like, all right now, how do I do it again? Or how do I make it bigger? The work is never over. Like you barely have time to celebrate a success before. Like you have to be thinking about the next thing. Yeah. I mean the big ones, like something like that, like I, I celebrated a bit and like had a good time and but most of the time you're right.

3:51 Yeah. I mean it's just click it off and and move on and pick your eyes up somewhere else. I think. I honestly, I think sometimes like when people like over celebrate the wins, especially like on social media, it kind of comes across like like they're like they're satisfied and like I don't ever feel satisfied with like I'm not satisfied, but like I'm happy. But like I always want more, like I want to grow my career more and more and more. You know, I want to move from the small room to the medium room to the big room and you know. I get in a weird spot with that too, of like, you know, how much should I and it's about vulnerability, like how much like when I have like a really big thing happen, you know, like I get a big opportunity, you know, from like, I can't even say.

4:41 I don't know when this is coming out. So there's some things happening that like I'm I'm excited about, but it's like, you want to show like the human vulnerable side of you like, wow, this is so cool that it happened, but you also want to show like, yeah, like I've been here before, like I I deserve this. So it's like a really weird fine line to walk that I I struggle with. Yeah, I mean, me too. Like I said, I was like a little shocked about the Coachella thing, but I felt like natural and comfortable there. It is definitely like a hard line to walk. I think for me, like I'm naturally not that celebratory, so I'm I'm more inclined to just be like, it feels almost like a relief, which I'm sure there's some therapy thing for that, but.

5:24 Explain that. You know, well, you know, like when you have like a big goal and then like you get there, like getting there almost feels like I had to do it. It's not, it's not like a, like, it feels like a relief when it happens. Not like a, not like a like, yay, like cheery thing. It's like a thank God I did what I was going to do. Yeah. You know, yeah, yeah. Like I, I don't know, it's been that way my whole life. Like with everything. Like I've always kind of just been like, if I want something, like I'm never pursuing it, like attaching my happiness to it. I think I'm pretty good about that. Like I don't necessarily attach. Like if I do this, I'll be happy because I feel like a lot of people do that. But I still like for me, like I have this thing where like if I put my eyes on something, it's almost like it's just going to happen. And I feel relieved when it does happen. Not like a, not like I'm like, like going to celebrate, you know?

6:19 Yeah, you're right. There might be some therapy there. Yeah, for sure. No, but I there's a lot I could say about that. I have also learned recently that when things are going really well is the time to stay humble because you never know what's around the corner. And like a creative career in music is cyclical. And that's why it's important not to over celebrate because you never know in, you know, there's, there's inevitably a lull in every person's career. And it might not even be you're not getting as many bookings, but it could be you're not happy with the direction of your music, you know, or you're not feeling aligned or whatever. So it's important to like kind of keep it keep a baseline, like just, you know, coast with your how much you let your emotions impact the decisions and the and the aftermath of of the stuff that happens. Yeah, I mean, I, I think it is extremely difficult as an artist to, you know, you, you don't want to get stagnant and make the same music or put out the same creative in any way, like over and over and over.

7:23 But as you evolve, like there's a lot of things that go with being an artist that also have to evolve. You know, like if I'm taking my sound right now, like I'm making pretty like classical house music, but if for the next 6 months I was writing like very dark, like kind of warehousey music, Well, I think that has to translate to like the look and the branding and everything. And it's kind of hard to like bend the whole like the walls of everything as you evolve creatively too. Because at least for me, like, I mean, I can control the music I put out, but I want to put out the music that I like passionate about. So if my passion starts steering somewhere else, it's like, all right now we got to pick up the whole rest of the thing and steer it that way as well, down to like the clubs we're playing and and that sort of thing. Has that happened happened for you in recent years? Yeah, I mean, I think so for sure like, well, I started like an auto like all like very minimal assigning to like very. Last time.

8:19 Yeah, like very like European, like minimal labels that do like vinyl and that sort of thing. And then I kind of start gravitating more towards house. And, you know, I was still kind of like piercing together, like what the brand was going to be in the 1st place. So I think it was maybe less difficult of like a hard pivot once there's a bunch in place like I feel like there is now. But yeah, I mean, it was definitely like hard for me even still to this day, like I kind of get tagged in with like this word minimal, which has also changed definition like completely. Yeah, I can't. I don't even put you in that category. When I think of what people say, minimal is today. Right. Yeah, so, but The thing is like, because I was kind of tagged into that and branded like that and everything like that.

9:06 Like, I'm still kind of trying to get it off my back and like, still just be like, OK, I'm a house artist. Like, I think it's a little bit looser, kind of allows me to step left or right a little bit more. The minimal thing, especially now as it's changed, like the minimal music I was making in 2020 when I started, like making this sort of music was like completely different than what everyone's listening to now. So yeah, I mean it, it is like I've had to do it a little bit, but I haven't had to like completely pick up and rebrand everything yet. I think the line, the lines of genres are is also getting so blurred now, like I'm afraid to call something like I'm afraid to literally say like, Oh, this is like Jack in house, because I'm like, no, this is fucking that's G house.

9:53 You don't know what you're talking about it. I'm like, OK, you know, it's so I feel like that's helpful in a way because you can, you can kind of take these little pivots a little bit without. I just, I just had not just maybe a month ago just had Ben Bijou on the podcast and he was talking about that, how like he was like G house, G house, G house and then had to make his rebrand towards house and and so artists. I mean, you're not alone in that. Like I feel, I feel like that's and that's just natural. Your tastes are going to evolve as you get older. I mean, mine do. I feel like we always have that thing that brings us back to center, but everyone's tastes evolve. Yeah, 100%. I mean, I can barely listen to the music I was making like five years ago as far as like the genre, like I I just don't even really enjoy it.

10:41 And it kind of seems like far fetched to me that I even like was so in love with it, but that but that's how it goes, right. Like I I just kind of but it happens slowly. I feel like, and I feel like you kind of kind of hear it in my catalog where like I think obviously like my most notable song right now, like tobacco docs, like my friend was playing guitar in that song and I was like, oh, this is kind of cool. And then like a bunch of my songs started having guitar and then I was like, well, this works really well with like jazzy stuff and disco stuff. So I started bringing that sort of influence in and now like I feel like I'm making like way bigger sounding music that doesn't even resemble where it came from. But like each kind of release I could feel like started stepping that way if that makes sense with some step outs. Like I have some random, not random, but like some songs that don't necessarily fit that exact mold. Well, the, the thing that you said that was so just like impactful in the in the last time we spoke was the success of a song is in its idea.

11:38 And like, basically your advice was don't get too lost in the sauce with the technical elements, because if the idea is good, you'll have a strong song, song, strong track that that still holds true for you. A. 100% yeah. I mean, I like, I think I've told you a bit about like I own like an engineering business where I do like mixing, mastering that sort of stuff in Co production and a bunch of stuff like that. And like obviously I value that. I think it's its own skill set and it's like own art basically. But I mean, I think there's tracks that are one of like one of my favorite tracks to play right now is an Eats Everything track called Upside Down. And by the way, I would engineer something like it's completely off.

12:24 Like I think like it like, but man, that song just works in the club and it's one of my favorite songs to listen to too. So I think, like I said, it's like it's its own separate art. And I think like a good mix and master can break a song but not make a song. So like the song is in the idea like that. Yeah, it still does hold true. Like that's pretty much. I like that it can't make a song, but it could break a song for sure. That's what you said. Make it. No, it can't make, but it could break. Exactly. Yeah. Like a bad mix and master. But even in that, like in that case, like, well, I would consider maybe not the best mix and master. It didn't break the song for me. Like, I still play it all the time. Yeah. But sometimes, like, for example, in my track stack, like I'll get tracks that are like pretty solid ideas and I'll be like, OK, but I see myself playing this and sometimes the answer is like, no, because of the way it's mixed or the way it's mastered, like it just won't play out right. Got it.

13:25 So where do your ideas come from? I mean, where did your ideas come from when you were making tracks like tobacco docs? And where do your ideas come from now since so much has changed? It's. Hard to say. Like they come from like a certain place. Like obviously I sample quite a bit and sometimes it's like kind of heavy-handed, but I think for like at least my writing process is never like I'm not really one of those people that like hears a melody and I'm like, oh, I got to sing this in my phone. Like I, I do like I'll hear stuff out in public and I'll be like, I like this song and I'll put it, I have a little playlist that I like keep a just like kind of inspiration songs.

14:11 And then I'll go visit that when I sit down. But when I sit down, it's more of just like, OK, what's my main idea? And then like I start writing to the main idea. And that's pretty much like how, how it all starts. Like I don't, I don't have like a specific process. Like I think a lot of people actually, I know a lot of people like that I've worked with are like OK drums And now I want it to sound like this song. So I'm going to go to this song and listen to it. And I don't really do that. I used to do that, but like, I feel like that hurt me creatively and I try to like, put me in this box. And when I write without like any sort of constraint, I feel like that's where I've actually been able to find my own sound, which I think I definitely like have at this point, yeah. And you said too, with like this, this new direction that you're veering into, you've had to change like you're your booking strategy to like the places that you're playing and you're playing at Spy Bar tonight, right? Seems like an intentional choice. Yeah.

15:11 I mean, I think sometimes, like, obviously like there's certain times where it's like, OK, we're getting into winter now. Like, is it realistic for me to have my eyes on like yacht parties, like not really boat parties, that sort of stuff. But I think as I've moved into the sound, like one thing that I've been really keen on doing is like outdoorsy, like boat party, that that sort of vibe, because I think it complements the music really well. And so like when I do play nightclub like spy bar, like I will play like a little bit like, I don't want to say like a different sound, but like, I know what tracks are like the tracks for the for the boat parties and what tracks are the tracks for the nightclubs.

15:53 What I was saying about like changing like where you're playing and stuff is like, if, if I wanted to be like in a certain, let's say, like artists, like group, you know how there's kind of like clicks, like not in a bad way, but there's like the solid grooves kind of guys. And then there's like the no art kind of guys PIV, right? And like PIV is like one of those labels that I want to be associated with and. I'm going on their boat party in Amsterdam. Really. Yeah. Yeah, I'm really excited. I'm very confused how there's going to be a boat party in like 50° weather next week but. Oh yes, maybe I'm wrong. Yeah, but no, I mean, no, it I totally get the vision. I get what you're saying. Yeah. So like, I think like it's more about being like strategic about like where you're playing in terms of that sort of thing.

16:38 You know, I don't think that there's many artists that are going to be like, oh, I'm not right for Spy Bar unless I don't know if they do like dubstep or anything like that. But like, I feel like any house artist of any range is going to be like, OK, Spy Bar is. So does that mean that you've had to say no to things over the past year? Oh, a ton, yeah. Really. A lot, yeah, I think we've said. I think we say no more often than we say yes. And that's got to be hard, turning down booking opportunities. Definitely. I'd turned 1 down. There was supposed to be last Friday because I just played in New York last week and it was in Miami at a club that I've really been wanting to play. And just the way it shook out, like we decided it wasn't the right play and a little bit crushing on a personal level because I really wanted to do it, obviously. But but I think the right thing will come along and like when it does line up, like it's going to be that much better, you know? That's yeah, that's one of the hardest things I think about being a creative is starting to get really judicious about your choices of like, if this doesn't align, should I still do it? And it means leaving money on the table, like at its very core, right?

18:02 Like you're losing out on money opportunities. But then again, like, if it's a personal goal to to play the certain club, but it's not the right fit. Like you just have to trust the universe and trust yourself and your brand. That like saying no is going to open the door for a better yes. Just trying to like get rid of like the self doubt that like, oh, maybe it won't come around again, you know, is it definitely is definitely important to be like selective about what you're playing and like what you're saying about leaving money on the table. I feel like it's always the ones that pay the most that you have to be like, I, this isn't the right look, you know, like totally. I've had a couple of those this year and I'm like oh man, like this could pay my rent for the next 6 months but I can't do this, you know?

18:48 Yeah, you know, I I get it. I had before I really like started my podcast and stepped into like working in music, you know, more full time. I was like a general influencer, right? So I was just like doing any sort of videos for random products, like obviously the ones that were worth the like what they were offering. But I realized that it hurt my social media after a while. Like I have a TikTok with like 100 and 50,000 something followers that just like started to go stagnant because I was like promoting so much random shit. It was all stuff that I liked. But like, you really have to be intentional if you're trying to build any sort of public persona. You're not, you're literally not allowed to like be all over the place until you've reached like legendary status, you know? So you have to like, maybe that's something, you know, 20 years from now.

19:42 You've been an artist for a long time. You get to do on the side for fun under a different whatever, but like in like when you're really in the thick of like building an intentional brand, like you have to say no to so many things because it will hurt you in the long run if you don't. Right. I mean, I think kind of what you're saying about like, oh, I was taking all these different like product offerings. I think one thing that's really hard for me personally as an artist, like balance is like. I mean, let's be honest, like nobody wants to see me post a ticket link for the tenth time this week. No one wants to see like flyer, flyer, flyer, flyer, flyer. And so like obviously you want to get creative with like how you're marketing and all that sort of thing. But I think, you know, the audience is smarter than ever at picking up when they're being sold to. So I think that's become like a massive like hurdle to get over. Like if you're if you're pushing products and you see like it's starting to stagnate.

20:38 Well, it's because like you're constantly selling, right? And like the person who followed you probably followed you for one of 10 reasons that associate with your personal brand. But like, even if they care about your brand, like they don't necessarily want to be sold to and for and for me specifically, it's like, OK, well, I have X amount of followers. How many live in Chicago? How many live in New York? How many live in LA? So like immediately when I'm focusing on one market or one thing, I'm pretty much brushing most of my followers off it. You know, like if it's location specific like that or like product specific too. You have to give a campaign, whether it be you playing a show or me selling something, whatever, you have to give it time to breathe.

21:27 And it can't just be like that desperate. Like you said, flyer, flyer, flyer, flyer. Look, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here. It's like you have to give each campaign like special attention and that requires a lot more thought. I just I had a clip posted. Of course, you know, for this podcast, sometimes I pick the click baity stuff because it gets people to listen to the episode. And I was I had a conversation with of Lawrence James from Crossfader and I was like, what are you sick of seeing on social media? He's like, I'm sick of seeing Flyers. And a bunch of people got upset about it and the clip went super viral, which I'm glad because it got people to listen to the full episode and actually hear his full thought of what he said. Like you can still post Flyers, but it should be accompanied, you know, by XYZ.

22:10 But it's like the same thing. Like people don't want to just constantly be sold to a flyer. Like, yes, it's if it has, if a graphic designer is behind it and not just Canva or AI. Like it's great. It has the essential information, but like it's, it's at the end of the day, it's, it's a billboard for, for a, for a product, which is an event and it, and it's just not compelling enough anymore. Yeah, I think they're necessary, of course, right. Like when you want to go to something, what do you do? You go find the flyer because it tells you everything about it. But I think, yeah, it's like it's just become this like hard thing where it's like, obviously like I want to push my own show.

22:52 The promoter wants me to push my show. So flyer is going up for sure. I've probably posted this by our flyer three to four times. I seen it. Yeah. And and like you were saying about giving shows like special campaigns, well, I think that's great. But you know when, when it's two or three shows, let's say 2 shows a weekend or even just shows every weekend once. Like how can you really like give each thing its own campaign? And what we've started doing, which is extremely difficult, is like we plan the next time we're going to be back in the city, the content for the next time. So like, we're trying to get content in New York so that when we go to push the New York show, the next one, it's like we can have that campaign, but that campaign is hard to just fabricate out of thin air.

23:47 Yeah, like, that's, I think, almost nearly impossible. Not impossible. You just have to be extremely creative. That's genius, though, and it doesn't even have like, I mean, I love that it sounds like you're doing something really specific, but just getting B roll like you said, like oh, I got camcorder footage over here on the train. Like that's something that I feel like a lot of people don't think about. I had when I had a Patreon still, I told people to B roll their life. I'm like, just get in the habit. Like if you see something cool, you know, you're just walking, whatever you see something cool, picturesque, whatever or something unique happens, it just B roll your life because you never know. And like keep it in a separate folder in your phone because you never know if that's going to become valuable later on. And that's like literally what you're doing. And like nobody's doing that unless they're already, they've toured 5,000,000 times and that they travel with a videographer and it just exists, right?

24:38 Like Charlotte De Witt does that. She has a full media team with her every, I've seen it everywhere she goes. But like, the fact that you're doing that, like that just puts you leaps and bounds ahead of so many artists. Yeah, I mean, to be fair, it's new and I'll give all the credit to the Murphy's Lawboys kind of got me on it. I don't know if you've ever seen their like they do like full, I think they're like 30 minute vlogs. Wow. And they they just bring their friends who will like do it for them. So like whenever I'm traveling with someone, I'll have them do it as well. But yeah, they kind of gave me the idea and they're like to just same thing you said, like just like just film things, like every like things are like relevant. Like I got like I told you, I was in Idaho this week.

25:20 I've never been fishing. So I got a bunch of videos of me catching fish now. Never been fishing? No. Where did you grow up again? I grew up in Phoenix, so not a lot of water. And then I also like, I raced dirt bikes the whole time I was a kid, so like, that's like all I did. Yeah. And my parents don't fish or do anything like that so. I've been fishing so many times I don't even know why. Midwest thing I guess. Yeah, it was all brand new to me, but I mean, it was kind of fun. It's long. Did you hook a worm? No, we just, it was called trolling. We were just like kind of cruising around with like a like a line out. OK, so you didn't have to put a worm on a hook? No, but I got the my finger in the hook a couple times all.

26:00 Right, Rite of passage, Yeah. OK, so you went fishing and and did you get B roll? Up Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like I got a bunch of like videos of just stuff like that. And like in my head, because I've been just camcording for the past two weeks, I haven't been home in two weeks. So I've just been camcording for the past two weeks. And in my head it's like starting to piece together like how the edit can look and like, OK, we are at the Empire State Building, we're in Central Park, we're at Superior Ingredients now I'm playing a show, we're getting on an airplane, we're going to Idaho. Now I'm fishing like, you know what I mean? And I can, I'm starting to piece together and like even just doing it, I've been doing it habitually for like the last like month. And I think I'm starting to understand like how it all actually comes together. Because at first, for me, it was just creating the habit of pulling it out, you know?

26:46 And that's why I got a camcorder instead of my phone is because it's just a different thing. Yeah. Because if I'm on my phone, I never even think. I don't take pictures I don't like. It's not natural for me. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, I've realized too, not that I can compare my life to the life of a DJ, but I realized the longer I work in this industry, the I don't document anything about my personal life anymore, which I kind of like because it's it's private, you know, like I don't need to post if I'm like, you know, have a craft night with the girls or whatever. Like nothing, nothing like that goes up on socials because you're selling yourself as a product. Like sure, you show little glimpses of your personal life, but that's a really great point you just made about having a separate device for recording because it reduces distractions too.

27:34 And it like forces you to build a new habit because the phone you just might not have, you just might not associate those. Well, my phone's always going to be in my hand. I just, for whatever reason it's worked out for me. For whatever reason, I just never felt to click like video. But also I will say I think there's something a bit cool about the camcorder, like the orientation. Totally. I'm shaky as hell when I do it, which I feel like will come out pretty decent. Yeah, the little. Date and number and all that, and then, you know, it's a bit like shittier than our phones. So I think it'll have a cool vibe, yeah. I want it. I want to get a digital camera again because I mean, I was still. How old are you again? I'm 28. OK, I'm a little older, I'm 33. And I was thinking on the drive here like because I was listening to just like old Waka Flocka and like that era of, of music, music that when I was in college, just thinking about how I'm like part of the last generation that we didn't record everything like, and we still had digital cameras. Like you couldn't record video on your BlackBerry. It looked like shit.

28:36 Like I did but it looked like shit since you had to take out a digital camera and I just remember how fun those pictures were because you couldn't alter them. Same. Like now you can obviously you can put it into an app or put it on your phone and face tune it or whatever. But like it just was just a moment in time that you captured and it was more special. And it's like the same with the camcorder too. Yeah, but you can't adjust all these. Like it's just like, it's just more raw. Yeah, it kind of just comes down when you press shoot. Yeah, and I like that. I think that raw look is cool. I'm trying to build a little bit more of that, like into the aesthetic of my branding. So just matched up. So I was like this is a good idea. And like we talked about this a little bit before we started recording, but your, your visual brand, like your clothing has always been on point. So that's something that you're really considered of. First of all, just tell me where this is from. OK, this is I'm assuming you're talking about. This.

29:31 Yeah. It's so sick. It's a brand called Kid Super. There's a shop in in Phoenix that I just go to and I've kind of made friends with the guys there and they know just about what I like. So when I come in, they're like, OK, we got all this new stuff for you. And this was like one of them. They pulled out and it was like too expensive. And I was like, dude, can you help me out? And he gave me like 60% off. So I was like, all right, it's worth it. It's like a cool piece, or I thought it was a cool piece, so. It's it's super cool. And you put me on to undeserved. Yeah. So I've I just got something custom from him. I was thinking about that on the flight here. I was like scrolling through their Instagram and I was like, you know, I should hit them up again.

30:13 Like their stuff is so dope. And they're obviously doing stuff for Ranger. And I just saw when I was in New York, there was a dude at my show wearing an undeserved shirt. And I went out to him and I was like, dude, this shirt is sick. Like, how do you know about this? And he's like, dude, I know about it from you. And I was like, OK, well, that's pretty cool. That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, you put me on and then like, but you said it and I put I was like, I think I've seen them at like shows before, like, you know, vintage, whatever. And last time I saw him at a vintage show, I was just like, hey, I had this like jumpsuit that was super old, but I didn't want to get rid of it. So I had a tailor make it into a dress. It was pants I had or make it into a dress. And I was like, can I just give this to you? And he kept asking me.

30:56 He's like, what do you want? I'm like, I like what you do. Just do your thing. I was like, I like skulls and butterflies and I'll have to show you a picture of it. So that the sickest like he crushed it. So doing those like custom that like, it's just like makes a world of difference. And you know, I've, I mean, a lot has happened since we last talked. I got fried by a bunch of dudes in the UK who are like vinyl only DJ's because one of my posts went viral telling DJ's they should care about what they wear. And they're like, fuck this bitch. Like that's not real DJ. And you know, like they like they whatever. So here's a here's an opportunity because the only other person I've talked to about this on the show has been a woman. Maybe they can hear from a man why it's important to care about your style as an artist. Well, I think like for a certain artist it matters, right? Like I don't know if he necessarily because it's hard to say, right?

31:49 Like there's a lot of DJs that don't dress that well. I'm not saying you can't be successful without dressing well, but what? But like make the argument of why it could help. I mean, I dress well like what I think is well for me, but I think like what it can do for like your career. Is it just like anything, it kind of can position you as like the, the DJ, you know, like it like when somebody very unassuming walks in and absolutely rips a room. That's really cool. And like I, I respect that. But I think that, you know, like having a certain piece or like a certain aesthetic or something like consistent, like can both add to like your brand, like how how you look overall. Like when you think about the artist and like, I mean, if you look at the most successful brands, like you can think of how just like the top ones, like John Summit dresses like you can, you can see the shirt unbuttoned like in your head, right?

32:53 And then like Clooney, like you can see like the chains and like you can see like that. Like I think he wears flat rims. Like I like I can just see it in my head. So I think like having a look in general. I don't know if it has to be like a good look, but having a look in general, I think can really assist in like that, like recognition overall. And then also, like I said, like it's like if you dress a certain way, it's why you see so many artists with like crazy hair, right? Like how many artists have done rainbow hair? Jeff Sarkowitz with his bleach chair. Yeah, yeah, I've, I've, I mean, I've, he said something to me about like how that's part of his brand. And he said it on this show. Oh. OK. Well then yeah, yeah, like it's like, yeah, it's just like if you have like that certain like look, I think it can be really like helpful, especially if you're a bit like shyer of a person.

33:44 If you have a certain look, it kind of makes you just look like the artist, like you're kind of filling the role a little bit. Because I don't want to say that like it's like you need to do this to, to be an artist. Because like I said, I think it's cool as fuck when someone comes in and like you couldn't pick them out of a crowd and they're like. The best for sure. But yeah, I think it's helpful. It had some, I mean, Ranger, Truko, Ranger, he's always wearing Boy Scout outfits, like, you know what I mean? Like that's just the brand association. And you can see general like in your head, like you can see generally what he's going to be wearing on any given show, right? So. No, I think yeah, it's not necessary, but I think it adds value to the brand. And I also think that no creative pursuit is frivolous, like putting effort towards your style or finding things that like really resonate with you, like I that helps in other areas of creativity in your life.

34:42 Like I do a bunch of like, like crafting that I'm never going to try to monetize or whatever, but like it just like opens up pathways in my brain, you know, of like just different, different creative challenges. Yeah, 100%. I think the one the one thing I'll say on the on the outfit thing and probably why the the vinyl DJ's are frying you. I find myself somewhere in the middle on the like super heady and like super like understanding like where like mainstream music business trends towards like I think that like what it is is people mix it up for like it's necessary for like the craft. Like you can be a great DJ naked in your room alone if you want, or you could be wearing the nicest like tuxedo. It doesn't really matter what you're wearing. Like the craft is the craft.

35:34 I think that's probably like why people were like, that's not why, you know what I mean? But but it's like if you look at it from like a especially in the in the United States, like where the market is, I think a little bit different, like how, how we choose, how we book and like that sort of thing and even how the fans are receptive. I'm not that familiar with Europe, but like I think the fans are very receptive to what they see oftentimes and not necessarily what they hear. Because I think you see brands that are doing very, very well where like they're not the dominant force in the sound, if that makes sense. Like if if we're let's just take the Brazilian sound. I think sometimes and like no one in like specifically, but like I think sometimes the best art, like music isn't what's recognized.

36:27 It's like the best socials or like the the guy that interacts the best or or the best dressed or whatever. But yeah. All of those things, it's not going to hurt you to put more effort into your brand. Of course not. You know what I mean? Like like it could it could help you. I don't think it's going to hurt you. Yeah. And and again, like you might just figure out by pursuing or figuring out what you like to wear might help you figure out what you like about music. I make random connections all the time between stuff you know and fashion and music is the history is so intertwined. Like it's you can't. You can't separate the 2. I mean, for me, like I feel like I at least the way I perceive it, like I kind of dress similar to how my music, like how I want it perceived, right? Right.

37:15 So yeah, like it's completely intertwined for me personally. Yeah, it can totally help shape perception. I mean, one 100% I when I dress a certain way, I think anybody will experience this. If you dress a certain way, you're perceived differently than when you're dressed another way. So, no, I just, it's always something that stood out about you to me. So I'm glad that we can talk about it because. Thank you. Yeah. No, you're you're a great dresser. All right. Well, it's cool that we got to do this like a second time and kind of dig deeper into the things you were you were talking about. What do you what do you want to leave the audience with this time around? Oh, that's like on the spot.

38:01 I know. What do I want to leave the audience with? You know what? I forgot to ask you? You. I didn't know you had a law background. Like, you went to law school, right? I didn't go to law school, I went to school like pre law. OK. So what? Give them some advice on that since you have that kind of knowledge about contracts or whatever. Like what's one thing you're a stickler about? I think read every deal that you are looking at, like if something's presented to you, read it all the way through, like what we were saying earlier, don't get excited and just take it because like sometimes the the like, you know, if it is, if it's not a fuck ass, it's a fuck no.

38:45 So like, sometimes the fuck no is in the fine print though, you know, sometimes, like it's hard to say. Like sometimes contracts that don't look good can do more for your brand then your pocket, right. Like, is it assuming it's like a money thing? But I think, yeah, just reading with detail, ask people to review it. ChatGPT is actually a great resource for that now, which is crazy. You don't really have to have a lawyer read things. You have ChatGPT tell you like, hey, what are the glaring points in this? Yeah, I mean that. And then the one thing actually, I do know what I want to leave everyone with is don't quit your job.

39:25 Like I think people jump. I've seen so many people jump to quit their job lately to do the music thing. And it's so up and down and it's so hard to find a level of consistency if especially with just touring. And me and Kai just talked about this in LA for his developed thing. But yeah, don't quit your job. The consistency will serve you better to invest in yourself than trying to just scramble and make it work. Because when you do the scramble thing, I've seen so many artists do it like they just they start like losing track of the music itself. They aren't writing music. And now they're doing this whole business over here, this whole side gig. And like, yeah, I think personally, if I had to go do this all over again, like I would actually be employed for longer before I before I quit because I made the jump too early and I had to like really build my like financial side. I have enough comfortability.

40:21 I think I'm just now getting to the point where like, I can invest in myself enough to where it actually moves the needle on my career. So yeah, that's the one thing I want to leave like artists with. Wow, I'm glad you said that because that's the whole point of the show. I have a range of perspectives on the show. I have an opinion on that personally. It's nuanced, but like I've heard people say the opposite. So it's really good that people kind of hear all sides of the of the coin. Yeah. I mean, for me, consistency, like financial consistency is important. So yeah. And like, it takes more money to be an artist than you think. God, yeah, yeah, it does. It really does.

41:01 Well, thank you. This is This has been awesome. Yeah, it's been great. Thank you for having me. The biggest take away from Anata's approach is understanding that every yes to the wrong opportunity means missing out on the right one. Don't I know it? When you're selective about your bookings, your content, and even your collaborations, you're making strategic choices that compound over time and not it turned down Miami shows and high paying gigs because they didn't serve his bigger picture. And that discipline is exactly why he's building something sustainable instead of just chasing quick cash. That's your weekly elevation. Remember, success and dance music isn't about luck, it's about strategy.

41:42 I will talk to you next week.