How to Stay in the Game When the Game Keeps Changing ft. Laidback Luke | EF EP 151

0:00 I must say that over a couple of hate comments over the decades I have considered quitting my career just by a random person who maybe had a bad day who thought I was crap. I thought shoot maybe I should quit. Luckily I didn't but it it hits heavy sometimes. So for me personally, you already said it. I like engaging with those people, coming at them with grace because I want to find out why they're so mad. Like maybe you had a bad day day or shoot, man, maybe you you don't have money to pay for food this month. And I pop up on your screen and I say something, you know, totally opposite. And then I understand and some it has happened that I've engaged with these people and actually they became big fans. Ever wonder how top DJs actually built their careers? I had to do. 15 years of hard work. To get any of the recognition that I wanted. Where I saw a turning point in my career is when I came true to myself.

1:00 From marketing and mindset to networking and negotiation, I'm giving you the tools you need to build a lasting career in dance music. Give them bits of you and your everyday life. You have to change the way you view the word no. Like me, I'm encouraged by it. Join me, Olivia Mancuso and industry leaders as we reveal that really takes to turn your passion into profit. This is elevated frequencies. Should we start? Yes. OK, obviously this is all you know, pre recorded and and edited and all. That good stuff. What? Did you like yourself? Do you ever mess up on purpose to just show prove to people that it's live?

1:43 What's interesting is the one thing that I love about DJing is for people to hear that it's live. And although there's a beat sync button on the CDJS, I like giving it a little push or a little tear backwards and just riding the BPMSI like that. And especially in this day and age, I think humanity is is wanted. Yeah. Yeah, what do you? So where do you fall on the spectrum of of the sync button argument? Oh, I'm not against the sync button. Furthermore, if whenever I do my tiny DJ sets on on my tiny DJ controller, I use sync.

2:23 But when I'm on CDJ's, I do like having the platter and pushing the platter, maybe scratching, scratching the beat in and that sort of thing. Yeah. OK, so after all this time, I mean you've been DJ ING how many close to 30 years? What still gets you excited to get up and go to work? Wow, nice. For me it's the game of catch. Like playing a game of catch with the crowd. Wondering if tonight will be a good set, a medium set or or really a set that I'll be thinking about during the week. Like, oh, messed up or I, I should have done this different. And it's never guaranteed.

3:05 So it's kind of like a high that I'm, I'm always chasing like, oh, and I do that actually, I have my personal top ten DJ sets or shows per year that I that I keep. And yeah, those number ones are in the top five is like such a high. I can, I can last for a month. Yeah, but then I need another. Yeah, right. Another hit. You know, I, I compare it to like me with being on camera. The I have been on camera in some capacity since 2014 as ATV reporter and then transitioning into this. And the longer I've done it, the less I've cared about the times that didn't go so great because it's just, it's another Rep. It is what it is.

3:51 That being said, it's different when you're performing in front of a live clap crowd versus just being on camera. So if you like those nights that things didn't go exactly the way you wanted to, how do you feel about it afterward? Like, do you get over it faster now than you did 20 years ago? Or is it you you beat yourself up? Good point, I would say slightly faster but whenever I think a set wasn't right for the night or it wasn't really average night it really bugs me all week and it it only evaporates when I'm at the next show kind of. Yeah, it's like your chance for redemption. Yeah, but that's interesting, what you said about being in front of the camera, even with us sitting here, I remember that I needed to start doing interviews and I was on MTV at the beginning of my career and I needed to do some presentations and everything.

4:48 And just from being a studio nerd and a DJ nerd to then all of a sudden needing to stand there and do things was so weird for me. And I think it's interesting that young DJ's grow up now, like needing to be full face. But they also grew up with the phone in their hands, so it's just comes more natural. I remember I was talking to a friend. We left the news business around the same time, and we were griping about how easy the editing tools have made it to, like, put content out there when we had to learn on this software called Avid, Avid News Cutter, which was so cumbersome, so clunky.

5:28 And we're like, this is BS. Like, these kids have it so easy, and they're just editing and posting content. And now it's so funny because of course I adapted and use all those tools. Like, why would I use something that's archaic and whatever? But I feel like the artists have similar conversations. Well, yeah, I used to have to carry my vinyl bags around and, you know, and now things are so easy for the people getting into the game now. Yeah, but it is interesting. And now you see the younger generation like filming with handycams again or even with the the throw throw away cameras. And so you hand in your film and then you need to wait for a week or two to get your photos back and that sort of thing. Yeah.

6:10 And they do enjoy that. Yeah. The type of romance, I guess. Yeah, it is like romantic. It is very, I don't know it, it creates that tension of like waiting to see the final product instead of the instant gratification. And I think we need that just as a society. We've gotten way too comfortable with getting what we want the second we want it. And everything is so perfect and, and high, high res and. But having a bit of that humanity in there makes it makes it full of character, yeah. 100% So you've, you've lived through a lot of eras of, of dance music genre wise, what what's popped off? You know how clubs like have changed and evolved? What's been the through line?

6:59 The thing that hasn't changed since you started DJing in the 90s to now? People dancing Overground versus underground. Although differently defined, you know, some could argue that what sounds underground now would then be called commercial and and vice versa. And I, I, I love the synergy between Overground and underground. I am actually a result of that where I have both sides in me, but just for people to to join in and dance the beats, to be accepted by a community that doesn't know everything about you and Just Dance and that sort of thing. Although maybe less of that type of energy now. It is a through line throughout the decades for sure. When you say there's there's less of that energy now, what do you mean?

7:58 Well, I, I do think that the current generation is not as outgoing and not as eager to, to bring out a whole lot of energy. And also maybe it has to do with the pandemic that they were inside watching DJs and seeing festivals. And then after the pandemic, they went out and they bring that living room vibe instead of all of them, the generation prior to that who just grew up like going out and and partying. So yeah, that type of vibe is different, yeah.

8:38 It's like the fear of being seen and the fear of being perceived. I think it is a big thing for young people. I that video that you you and I talked about where I like microdosed irresponsibility the other week I was dancing like such an idiot, like because I was feeling myself. And I am sure there's footage of it that exists somewhere, but I just don't care. And I think that also comes with age. Like I do hope that the the younger people like realize like it doesn't matter. Like the most important thing is to have fun. And why are you going out and staying out this late and being on a dance floor if the point isn't to have fun? You know, So even me back, like I, I think that generations before Gen. Z, like we've always been a lot looser, like you said, because we just didn't have so many cameras and whatever around and then the pandemic factor.

9:31 But I do think that like the way I danced last weekend, I probably wouldn't have at 25 because like now I just really don't care. And it's amazing. Well, it's fascinating because one of the things of the generation of now is also that they're very lonely. They're connected to everyone, but they're on their devices being these lonely little islands by themselves. And I wonder if this also feels the same in in like whenever they are in a, in a crowd. Like what do I do? Because apparently I can't have my phone at a, at a dance music event anymore. So OK, So what do I do?

10:12 Right? Do I stare? Yeah, yeah, wear sunglasses. Wear sunglasses. You know, that's always like a hack. If you feel awkward and you and, or you're going to an event solo or whatever, sunglasses do help. They serve more purposes than just, you know, hiding if you're up. Yeah, it's interesting. I've been deejaying with sunglasses on. Part of the rebrand I guess, but I always imagined them being VR glasses and that I'm in this virtual world. Hey, I'm a DJ now and this is my world. Right, right. It's. Mid set I'll take them off but I I do feel the difference where it's like oh now it's real.

10:52 Yeah, it does. And. Now I see you. For sure. Just like the lights coming on at the end of the night, you're like, you know, you. So you've helped champion a lot of talent over the years as as you have worked on your own career, a lot of people have come up because of you. I'm not so much interested in the technical side, but what are like the the traits that all the successful artists that you've helped come up have that you're like, oh, there, there's something special about this one. Yeah. Well, first of all, I operate from a mode where I'm like, I want everyone to succeed. I love seeing people thrive. I love giving a leg up and, and for them to just flourish. I love that.

11:39 But it's a, it's a hard road and especially sometimes a long road when, when trying to reach the top of the world and, and you'll need to have so much perseverance. And I'm, I'm very stubborn, for instance, and I deal with the hate and I deal with the everything that comes on my path and flip it around and giving it fuel so I can get better and grow and that sort of thing. And yeah, you need to have that type of mindset to, to go through, you know, also the dark side of the music industry, for instance, or people that don't like what you're doing and don't want you to succeed. And how do you cope with that? Or, you know, having bad shows or promoters that don't pay or record labels that screw you over or how do you cope? And there's also a certain type of humbleness that I'm looking in people because whenever you hit success, all of that gets magnified.

12:39 I've seen that with a couple of my earlier students where from from the get go, they were like kind of cocky and then they grew and they became mega cocky. So after that, I was like, hmm, I got to keep an eye out for the for the humble folks. Right. OK, so being humble, being coachable, having a having a thick skin. Yeah, I would say that's so true because and I've seen you in in comments, respond to people who say, you know, unsavory things and you respond to them with confidence. But like, Grace, it's not like you're getting in the weeds or, you know, rolling around in the mud with them. But you do have to have a thick skin because just as quickly as something can take off and there's a lot of positive reaction, the inverse also happens.

13:30 And it's usually at the same time because art is polarizing by nature. Well, good art is, at least. And it can be a lot if you're not ready. For that, you know what's interesting, Olivia? I am, I used to be an underground artist when I started and I was, I was super cool about that. Like I was making techno stuff and in my little niche, they viewed me as a talent. And especially around in the Netherlands. I lived in the Netherlands then around Amsterdam and the cool scene was really embracing me as like, oh, you got to check out this young kid. So I had kind of like settled in there. And then a a few months after I sort of accidentally had a big hit and I got known in the whole country outside of Amsterdam and everything. And I came across these people that supported me a few months ago and they wouldn't even speak to me anymore. And I'm like, but I'm the same guy. I just have more success now.

14:30 I'm literally the same person. And that shocked me and when I when my profile got bigger and bigger, I thought I was going to be more love this kind of like low key why I did it as well, like become successful to show people you know, I'm worth I'm worth something like I'm that guy. I can do it to then get met with an amplifying of random hate, like just people coming at you. Even now, even today, I sometimes wake up, bring my daughter to school, had a good night, had a good night of sleep and everything's great. Pick up some groceries for the wife, come back home, open my Instagram and someone is like, they have to like to kill me.

15:16 And I'm like, what did I do? I know, I know the feeling. I push off checking Instagram like at least an hour after I wake up because of that, because there's it really is a feeling and you like you can build up this, this toughness and like this armor, but it still hurts. It's so funny because those people would never say anything in real life. Online has given us like this like false sense of, I don't know, just hubris. And like you think you can be this badass online but those people would never say anything to your face. Well, it's interesting. I sometimes think, you know, if I see a post that I don't like by a person that I don't like, I don't go in or anything.

16:02 I'll just skip over it or I'm like, yeah, good for you, but I'll never be like, oh, get my keyboard warrior hands ready. Right, right. It's always from people who, like I always say that keyboard warriors are people who don't have anything to lose or they've never built something meaningful. Because when you have you realize, oh, there might be ramifications for me joining in on this dogpile or, you know, leaving a nasty comment like it it like for Someone Like You, like if you were in people's comments, like talking smack like that could really damage, you know, your, your brand and your your opportunities. So it's never coming from anybody who has a lot to who has a lot of value to add. I have.

16:47 I have a couple of angles in here. I must say that over maybe a couple of hate comments over the decades, I have considered quitting my career just by a random person who maybe had a bad day who thought I was crap. I thought, shoot, maybe I should quit. Luckily I didn't, but it it hits heavy sometimes. So for me personally, you already said it. I like engaging with those people, coming at them with grace because I want to find out why they're so mad. Like maybe you had a bad day or shoot man, maybe you, you don't have money to pay for food this month.

17:29 And I pop up on your screen and I say something, you know, totally opposite. And then I understand. And some it has happened that I've engaged with these people and actually they became big fans. It's. Amazing. It's amazing that you can flip someone by just showing them a little bit of grace and understanding. Yeah, that's. That's pretty cool yeah. I, I don't think people like realize how powerful their words can be, especially when they're chiming in on one of, you know, many comments. It's, it's, it's really, and it's not just artists that faces, it's everybody online.

18:14 And again, it's not people who have ever dared to put themselves out there in any way. But so back to what I was asking you. It's, it's, you know, the armor that they can build up, the being humble and not being yet not being cocky. I think those are those are all you know their their personality traits that can't really be taught either, but you have they have to be innate to who you are. But also this one, and I know in this day and age it can be a bit toxic, but the hustle mentality or the mentality of like no rest and like just go, go, go trying to reach your goals, it actually really helps.

18:58 I mean, you got to be careful that you don't overwork yourself and that sort of thing. Keep mentally stable, but you got to chase it. I mean, I saw someone comment on your post today, like when do you sleep? And you're like in between, like when there is in between time. I, you know, I don't subscribe to like the soft life. Like you have to understand that, like I'm speaking to the DJs, aspiring DJs out there, there are so many people who want your spot and they are working themselves to the bone every single day. So if you're not doing that, like, why do you deserve it more than someone else? Yeah, got to have that hunger. And as that, do you think it is you have to work harder now than 25 years ago or or the opposite?

19:49 The hunger and the fire is equal still like it. It has to do with these couple of years where I was trying to work up to my success and I had a had a goal. This was about 2002, 2001. I got signed with a major record label, Virgin Netherlands. And actually that single I just spoke about where where the whole underground just fired me. I reached my peak. All of a sudden I was known in my own country, I. I was right here, was on MTVI, was doing all of my things. And I thought to myself, I did it. This is great.

20:31 I'm famous now making great money. It's done 2004 comes around a year later and I'm I'm phoning my manager. I'm like, where are my remix requests? Why is no one playing my tracks? Like what's going on so quiet. And she's like, yeah, dude, you've been doing nothing for a whole year. What do you think would happen? And I'm like, oh, I didn't even consider. I thought I'd made it and that's it. But it's never it you. I then learned that you always need to keep on going. Keep on going. Yeah, because your audience expectations grow as you do. Like you you.

21:12 You cannot rest after having like, enjoy the moment, savor the moment, but it just means you have to go harder, even harder next time. Yeah, and something that rarely gets spoken about. So whenever you have that hit the big one and what's next, it's kind of. And I remember getting my first burnout from after I had big success with the the Green Velvet, the Stalker remix. My name got spread globally and I felt the whole world was waiting for me to make a follow up. So the next month, next months, I tried to make a follow up and I couldn't do it because it was low key an accident that I made that track and was all sorts of things coming together.

22:02 And then afterwards I was forcing it. What do you do after you hit success? And yeah, artists often try and recreate that, but that it really doesn't work that way. It's funny, I had these guys Murphy's Law in here a couple weeks ago and they said the same exact thing. They had this remix of Ain't No Other Man Christina Aguilera song, and they said every track they made after that tried to replicate that formula and they said it was like their most terrible year of music because they were just trying to recreate that same. And and it just doesn't work. You when you realize you have lightning in the bottle, in a bottle on something, it's like bittersweet because you're like, OK, now I have to rewire my brain to do something totally different.

22:51 Yeah, so doing something totally different can actually work for sure. Don't get caught in like, oh now I'm this pony and now I need to keep on doing this trick. Yeah, yeah, right, right. No, it's this kind of like these kind of conversations either scare off the people who are not willing to put in the work, or it energizes people to keep going, you know? Well, the beautiful thing about landing a couple of big tracks is that they always come seeminglessly. It's kind of like as if the universe gives it to you. Here you go. It's a quick session, 2-3 hours. Before you know it, you're in the studio. You're like, what is this?

23:34 I don't even know what happened anymore. I was in a state of flow. And here it is handing it out to a couple of fellow DJs and it just explodes. To then have a couple of tracks you've been working months on and try to push it to other DJs and no one is picking it up. And it's like, get so heavy. Yeah. So usually the big ones are super easy if you if you get them. Yeah, right. And the flow state is so important too you. So I want to dive into Mixmash a little bit because it's such a a legendary label and collection. When when did that come into?

24:18 I actually don't know this. When did that come into the picture for you? How long were you an artist before you started the label? I was putting out records ever since 1995 and in 2001 I started Mixed Mash records. This had to do with my websites guest book running out of hand and I flipped it into a forum where I was in touch with a whole lot of young DJs, guiding them, giving them producer tips. And what was the forum like? What platform hosted it? It was just a section on my website. So that was like, I can't remember what the 2001 like what what it. 1999 I think I started my website OK with a little guest book and. It was like a.

25:05 Chat room, it was just like a, a thread, like a old school Twitter thread of people chiming in, asking questions and some young producers and DJs and so well. And I was like, oh, I like these questions. I'll answer them. And they couldn't believe that it was really. Me. Nobody was doing that at the time. No, no. You would have no chance of like talking to your favorite artist unless you happen to catch them after a set. Yeah, exactly. So that got out of hand because I couldn't scroll back anymore. And so we flipped it into a forum with sections and what you could now see as a like a discord. And I had some moderators at a certain point.

25:47 And yeah, this became the breeding ground for a whole lot of professional artists as we know it. But when they started there it was they were no one and young talents and. Avicii came from that forum, Afrojack. I mean, my audience is all DJs, so they know these these names like it's a big deal. We have many more like Dioro Bingo Players. Young Oliver Heldens was on there, young Steve Angelo was on there. And yeah, even even people that weren't DJs and producers, they they were on there and they became people in the music industry. For instance, Shout out, Martin Garrick's manager was one of them. Really.

26:29 I have a whole bunch of people like the old label manager of Revealed Records. No. Kidding. OK, so then you realized a record label was the next. Well, this was because I, I, I heard so many demos and at a certain point all of these kids became so good at them and they were like professional level. And I'm like, I wish I had a platform to release this on and also platform for myself. So that became mixed match records. Wow, that's amazing story. So. So you met Steve Angelo through your forum? Yes. Yeah, and that's how you put out Show Me Love. Yeah, Now I have to be clear though, Steve Angelo was never a student of mine, but he came onto my forum because he had heard my official remix for Daft Punk and he's, he's a huge Daft Punk fan. And he was like, I got to find out more about Laid Back Luke and how it was working with Daft Punk and that sort of thing. So he came hanging there and yeah, we had such a good time. And then he invited me to Stockholm, Sweden to start producing with him.

27:35 Wow this is such a testament to because I remember like when I was in high school in like 2006 to 2010 DJs were nerds. Now that's not the case. You're cool 1st and then you become a DJ. But this is just a testament to the fact like no one was really hanging out on online forums like the general population. So this just proves that like, it was a nerdy tech forward group of people who are at the core of like when this industry exploded. Yeah, yeah, It was like. That I didn't know forums, like I would not know how to find something like that back then. Wow. So that's just like, it's just crazy now how DJ's are kind of discovered and incubated and whatever. It's still online, but it's so different. Yeah.

28:26 Yeah. Yeah, I never realized it that way. And that was never the intention either. It was because I had a hard time coming up as a talent myself. And my big example was Gaston from Chocolate Puma who took me under his wing and he was famous back then for releasing tracks under the Good Men and me, an unknown 15 year old talents. He heard something in me and he invited me out to his house and to guide me in producing, give me advice, give me tips, and that was my blueprint. I was like, if I make it, I want to be like that, but maybe to a whole lot of more people. And that's what's earned you the title Sifu. So for those who don't know what that is, tell tell us what that means.

29:15 Sifu means master or teacher in in Cantonese Chinese. This derives from my Kung Fu practice. I'm a black belt in Kung Fu, second degree black belt. And my Kung Fu students, they call me Sifu, but also some of my producer students. And it's funny, some of my, some of my Latin American students still call me teacher, for instance. And it's all the same thing. Yeah. But guiding a community like that, there's also a whole lot of heavy decisions I was involved in like integral decisions where I remember being on a bus tour with GTA Matt and, and Julio.

30:03 And I remember sitting down with Matt after after the show and he was like, I am thinking of doing this professionally, but I'm, I'm not sure if I want to do it. Can you help me make this decision? What are the pros and cons and what would you advise me? And obviously good times ahead. We still know them, they're still working. So my advice has always been like, go for it. Similar to Deorro, he was at A at a fork in the road at a certain point to continue his nursing career or become a full time DJM producer. And he asked me and yeah, I was like, man, you have the talent, you're building that following.

30:50 I think you can totally do that. So just go for it. Wow, wow. It's crazy to see how you're your advice has shaped a lot of those careers on the Kung Fu side that is just like to be a black belt in something. Do you do you know, like what percentage of people who practice ever achieve black belt? Like is that stat available? Oh wow, I'm doing BJJ now, which I think there's a there's stats for that. It's like 0.7% of the people that start. Become black belts. Yeah, no kidding. My Kung Fu. Journey as well. It was hardcore, I must say, like it took me 20 years to get my black belt and my teacher is old school and hardcore and yeah, he didn't just give it to me because I was a famous DJ or anything. I had to work for it.

31:46 I still have the bruises and scars for it, but it's it's fascinating. It ties in with my DJ career for me because my Kung Fu teacher decided to up my Kung Fu level right in the middle of the peak of my career. I remember turning towards him saying, oh, seafood because he's my seafood. I can't do this like this DJ life and the amount of shows that I'm doing, I was doing 150 shows globally per year. I'm not getting sleep. I'm eating like crap, like I'm on the verge of another burnout.

32:27 And he's like, you know what we should do? We should up your Kung Fu level. And I'm like, what? That's crazy. But with his training, I started taking him with me on tour. With his training it actually balanced out and I was able to find a state of Zen whenever on tour and the hours to put the training in. That's pretty cool that you took him on tour. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. Like, if you're gone all the time, you got to take him with you. What did he think about DJ life? Oh, he loved it because he always wanted to be like a rock singer. OK, so being on tour and meeting tons of people, he always thought was really fun and always beating the crap out of me every morning on tour as well.

33:12 It was fun for him. Wow, I bet. I mean, that's like, talk about, like, the two most intense things you could do, and then you're doing them morning and night. That's crazy. Yeah. Wow. So now you switch to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Oh, it's an addition. Oh, it's an addition, yeah. Oh wow, because in Kung Fu there's no ground fighting. Right. And it's fascinating to apply what I've learned in Kung Fu but now on my back. Yeah, And you do Tai chi too, right? Yeah. Tai chi. I tried some YouTube videos. My husband and I did. We're like, this looks real, like good, like we wanted.

33:52 I felt so dumb. I was like everybody. And it was like beginner. We searched beginner Tai chi and I'm just like, why am I so lanky? And I have so many like acute angles on my body and the people on the TV were just so flowing. Like how do I get? Granted I tried like maybe three times, but I think that is something that if I had like, I want to learn how to do that. Well, you're looking at at a good teacher, all right? I could teach you. You're not dumb. You're discombobulated. I am very discombobulated. So a whole lot of people, even with breath work being inside of your body. Yeah.

34:32 Using the breath work not only to relieve stress, but to move your body, to pick up things to, to put the breath in the right space of where your life energy is, that sort of thing, breathing into your organs. There's a there's a whole world that people don't know about. I'm terrible at all those things. I am. I tried. Freddie's very good at meditation. He does it every day. He has guided ones. Sometimes I can do it, but I'm just very jumpy and I know that if I committed to something like that it would help me a lot. Yeah, I also have some tips on meditation for you. And it's, it's interesting because we think that we should think about nothing in meditation, but what we do in in our Kung Fu and, and Tai chi is to actually acknowledge what we're thinking about the things that need to be done, but then park it momentarily.

35:29 Park it. And it's there. Yeah. But now you're here. Right. I really, I really do need to learn how to do that. I think, like for me, my problem is I just get, and I think a lot of creatives can relate to this. I just get too excited about all the different things that I'm doing. Like today a client called me and they're like, yeah, we're planning. We want you to help us plan a party between this jewelry store and a Ferrari dealership. I'm like, so cool. You know, it's like, I love everything that I do, but it's just, it's going on all the time in my mind. It's good to to see your body as a vehicle that needs to be fueled before it can go in hard like that.

36:17 Yeah. And then you take the time to get that charge and then like you could go fully, fully in. Right. So is that something when you're when you're mentoring students like is it strictly production or are you weaving in some of those lessons into there? Oh, mental health is huge for me because without as a sound mind and you feeling good in your body, how are you going to be creative and and bring people a package of joy and energy and memories is what I call tracks. How are you going to bring that to people? So yeah, that's really important for me. Yeah, yeah, I think that's amazing. You know what? Like anecdotally, I think men have always had a harder time with it. Like, they feel like they don't have the permission to, you know, talk about mental health or prioritize it. So hearing it from like other male leaders, I think is super important.

37:16 After the whole passing of Avicii, this broke open throughout all of the DJ industry for us. Finally, we got to to complain to each other how heavy it was on tour or why, why are you having a mental breakdown when you're on a private jet from The One Show to the other show? And we finally got to talk about it. And obviously you can also have mental breakdowns when you're on on a budget airline. You could have a mental breakdown anywhere. Anywhere. It's OK, let's just talk about. It yeah, yeah, 100%. I know. I, I, I, I see some of that toxic discourse now with people like towards influencers, like, oh, why are you complaining? Like you're an influencer, you have a perfect life. And it's like, no, it is.

38:03 We all are living human experiences and it's really important that that we continue to have those conversations. Yeah, no one has a perfect life. No, nobody does. So for the people who are like, first discovering you today, What, what do you want them to know about you? I mean, you have such a, a rich history of, you know, just being in the music industry for so long and so many hits. But a lot of people are just getting into dance music now for the first time, which is exciting and also kind of crazy. What? What do you hope they take away from experiencing one of your sets?

38:45 What I I love doing is being, being part of the crowd. If I could, I would dance in the crowd. But I, I, when I, whenever IDJI dive into the energy of the night by pretending I'm one of the crowd, except now I have the ability to direct the music in the best way possible for the event and for the night. And with that, I, I, I want us to be a, a momentary community like I, I still really love peace, love unity and respect. And that type of unity. It was always the foundation of the house music as well. And I love bringing that back and, and feeding that to me.

39:30 The crowd doesn't look like a bunch of strangers. It looks like one piece of energy that I want to be part of and which I can direct. So for all the lonely people out there that are a little bit anxious or scared to go out and go dancing, I'd say try and tap into that type of energy with me where we're one community where there will come various moments in my DJ set where I'll lift you up and and even if you're sober, you'll be like what happened? I feel so euphoric right now and I want you to walk away lingering for more. Right. Yeah, I, I think that message is really important because there, there has been like this trend where like the DJ is kind of too cool and you know, like untouchable, not like, I don't see that all the time, but I do think that sometimes there can be, you know, it's, it's more so the people who, who get into it later, like later on, they think it's like a cool thing to do. And at the end of the day, no PLUR. PLUR is the foundation of this scene. Furthermore, when DJ started they they used to be in a dark corner in the club and the DJs like you said were nerds. They were just music nerds, but tastemakers as well and and giving you the new music that you didn't know you would like and that sort of thing.

41:00 I still stand for that. The tastemaker aspect is, is so important, you know, and I think a lot of DJs feel frustrated by, oh, like people are here to hear are here to listen to specific songs for me that they like, and they're just like waiting for that. And I think that's where there's been a lot of friction lately is like, because social media has amplified certain tracks, It's like, I just want to hear the artist play this one song. And that's always been a thing in like pop music, by the way, Like if you go to like a third eyed blind concert or AI don't know, like Britney Spears, like back in the day, they played their Best Song last because they knew that's what you were waiting for.

41:40 And now that's kind of hit dance music, too, because of how it's been, you know, made popular social media. And so, like, the tastemaker element is so important to uphold. Like yes, you have to serve your audience, You know what they want, But it is your job to show people music that they've never heard before and they didn't know they needed. Yeah, supposedly DJs should be digging into crates, as we would say back then, to find the the next song that will hit big or to find that song that's perfect for my profile and possibly yours. Yeah, those type of journeys, those, those were amazing.

42:21 Like I remember going into record stores looking for those types tracks and sometimes you couldn't find them because the guy in the store was holding, holding them back for the the famous DJ coming in. And there's still opportunities like that. Yeah, right now, that's just now that's just happening virtually. They're being very, you know, they gatekeep their music and only send it out to to certain people. Do you do that, or do you just let it fly? I usually try and see what it does for my crowd. I'll play it out a bunch of times and see if anything catches on, and if it does I'll give a few people a heads up for sure.

43:01 Yeah. What do you think newer artists should do that are maybe just playing a couple shows here and there, producing, really trying to get music signed? What's Is there a right formula for that? Oh man, the newer artists, I think they're on it. I mean, the ones that I see, if you're on TikTok and you're putting a video out each and every day, the same type of formula of maybe you in the in the studio vibing to your own track, rinse and repeat. I've seen that multiple times. That's the winning formula right now. Do it 2-3 weeks, see if it catches on. I think Alex Warren had a story like that where ordinary it wasn't of any interest for the major labels and he just started swamping TikTok with it because he believed, really believed in it until it actually caught on. And there is a number out there of like amounts of videos that he made with that track until it hit. Yeah, and if the people want it, you can't ignore it. Yeah, Yeah.

44:09 Well, this has been really great to to chat with you. Is there anyone singular piece of advice you want to leave my audience of, you know, upcoming DJs and producers with that? I mean, I know you give advice on your YouTube and Instagram and I mean, this is like what you live and breathe. So what's what's your top tip for today? My top tip is that you should allow yourself to reach your goals. You are worth to reach your goals. Whatever you want in this life, you can have it. Just go for it. Don't feel like you're an impostor. You're you are worth it and just work for it.

44:49 I love it. I love it took us to church. Well, thank you so much. Thank you.