Chasing Gen Z Is Overrated ft. Party Pupils | EF EP 161

0:00 As you get older, the cool kids club just becomes what you like and who else likes that and you're not trying to fit in with something that is just not naturally there. Everything just becomes so much more enjoyable. For me now is about enjoying the ride. It's not about trying to fit in. It's about finding what I can do best and and and really enjoying the process. Party pupils spent years being told to chase the young crowd, keep up with the trends, stay relevant or get left behind. He didn't. He leaned all the way into niche, funked up, feel good re imaginations of the classics your parents grew up on. And in doing that, he found an audience nobody in the DJ world was even bothering to talk to people in their 40s, people in their 50s and beyond.

0:45 Now, more than a decade in, he's selling out rooms for the first time in his career, doing exactly what feels true to him. This one's for anyone who's been told their lane is too small, or the audience is too old, or that you have to go viral with the kids to matter. You don't. This is elevated frequencies. Ever wonder how top DJs actually built their careers? I had to do 15 years of hard work to get any of the recognition that I wanted. Where I saw a turning point in my career is when I came true to myself. From marketing and mindset to networking and negotiation, I'm giving you the tools you need to build a lasting career in dance music.

1:25 Give them bits of you and your everyday life. You have to change the way you view the word no. Like me, I'm encouraged by it. Join me, Olivia Mancuso and industry leaders as we reveal what it really takes to turn your passion into profit. This is elevated frequencies, something I've learned building in this industry. The career you want doesn't come from going viral, it comes from professional relationships, and that's exactly what Track Stack was built for. The industry keeps giving artists tools designed for casual listeners, but Track Stack was built for the professionals who invest in each other. Track Stack Pro puts you inside a network of labels, curators, and artists who are genuinely invested in each other's career, where every submission becomes a contact and every contact is a relationship that can turn into a collaboration, a booking, or a door You didn't even know existed. And those relationships are yours to keep. No algorithm deciding who sees your work and no platform holding your contacts hostage.

2:24 Go to track Stack dot app and use code elevated for 50% off pro for three months. That's track stack dot app code elevated. I'm just obsessed with the brand. Like I'm obsessed with everything you do. I grew up on funk and disco. My parents really instilled like this is the best music. Nothing will ever beat this so just a prime people who don't know who you are talk to me about that foundation was funk and disco your upbringing? Yeah, actually. So, yeah, Party pupils started this project with the intention of it being alternative electronic, as in not traditional house music. A little unquantized funkier, definitely pulling from a lot of just very funky off grid.

3:08 I call it off grid beats and stuff like that. A lot of hip hop, a lot of boom bap from the 90s and early 2000s. I'm a Millennium. So I grew up on hip hop. I grew up on like everything all at once essentially, you know, So for me growing up, my parents, you know, typical boomers, they had the vinyl and the cassettes in the House of like everything from Prince, Michael Jackson, you know, James Brown. We had everything. But, you know, my discovery of all this was really through, like, MTV and the dawn of that that era. And as I got old enough to start buying my own records and eventually start making music, my biggest influence were definitely funk, like Earth, Wind and Fire. Yeah.

3:48 You know, like Funkadelic, like all this stuff that like, you know, obviously Prince and Michael and Jackson 5. All of it just really went deep for me. Yeah, God, I, you know, this constant struggle that I have with some, some of my clients is how do we reach these Gen. Z kids? And I'm thinking like how in your situation, a lot of these songs are classic, but not as many young people know them as we'd like to hope. It's true, yeah. Has that, and I feel like I'm kind of skipping some stuff here, but I'm curious, like, has that been a consideration for you as you've built your career?

4:30 Like no one's going to know the originals. They're not going to know how epic this is as a reimagination. It's interesting because I think right now that's a great question by the way, but I would say that my over the over the course of ten years that party pupils has been a project. It went from being focused on trying to reach a more youthful audience, which it started as and as it progressed, you know, quite honestly, like I didn't really keep up with I guess the trends And so and I didn't, I don't really care to. It wasn't really something that I felt very passionate about doing. I didn't, I know I didn't start this project to stay relevant and dance music. I started it because I wanted to do something that felt really good in the space that was true to me.

5:12 And so, you know, when we did the Miss Jackson cover back in 2016, that was kind of the introduction to the sound of like what we were going for. And I say we because it was me and my partner, Max soloist, pop singer, incredible talent. But yeah, we started as a duo. And basically, yeah. As far as reaching the youth recently, it hasn't been as much of A priority because quite honestly, like it's it's shifted so much in a direction that I just know that I don't think that I'm necessarily super relevant. You know, I don't sound like John Summit. I don't sound like Fred again. And I'm not trying to. And that's like, and I love those guys. Like that's it's all respect. It's just that that's not what I do. And I think that before this whole yacht house, this era started, I was still kind of trying to figure out where I belonged in, in the DJ space at least. And since I'm a producer first, like I didn't feel this, this really deep connection to like being a full time DJI love doing it, but there's a whole lifestyle around it, you know, and it, and it could be from just being a working DJ 5 to 6 nights a week open format to a full time, you know, national international touring DJ.

6:25 And personally, it's just not something that I felt like I wanted to chase entirely unless I felt like I can do it in my own way. So I actually took off like most of last year from touring because I was doing terrible. I was not selling tickets and I didn't know where I belonged. Like club wise, festival wise, I've just gone stale and I didn't wasn't doing the work of, you know, especially paired with the like irrelevance. I also wasn't doing the work as far as even trying to make myself more relevant. I was just becoming embittered with the state of social media. And you know, like every old head, you know, I'm, I'm 41, so like I, I was getting to that point my life.

7:06 I'm like, ah, forget about TikTok. You know, it's just a, you know, I was like that guy. And, and then finally, you know, when I realized that everybody is on these platforms now, it's not just young people, it's, it's truly everybody up to like even into their 80s that are, I'm engaging with people on TikTok that are in their 70s and in their 80s. And so when I realized that the world is huge, not only in, you know, population, but also in demographic, I felt like there's this whole market of people that I feel like I'm just naturally connecting with from the music that I love, that I love to remix. And these people are not marketed to at all from the DJ space. You know, it's typically like maybe a wedding DJ or, you know, and, and wedding DJs are incredible. It's like, like genuinely the best of what that whole thing. But as far as reaching them on in like a social media or organic level of like bringing something old and new together, it, it really wasn't there.

8:06 And so, and I discovered that by accident because all I was doing was just what I love to do, which was posting remixes that that I make for fun, very farm to table. Like I would make it, make a video, see how it does. And yeah, I just started seeing some of these songs go absolutely crazy. And you know, it's, it's definitely just broadened the demographic. It's I'm still pulling people that are in their 20s, but the majority of the demographic that I'm that's being like very responsive is over 38. I'd say 40 even into 50s like Gen. X. So this is so refreshing to hear for multiple reasons because number 1, I feel like if you're not a, you know, the youngest generation that's, you know, parting whatever you get looked over, it's like, what do we not matter anymore?

8:54 Like theoretically we have more money to spend on these shows. So why are we like, you know, second fiddle, but also I, I can relate to your story so much because when I was starting this podcast 3 years ago and some change, I had some mentors that were like, you know, OK, well, are you going to stay up to date on like, because I'm not a producer. What's trending? What's this was that? And I'm like I told, just told you I was a news reporter. I'm like, I don't want to do that. That seems so exhausting. I just want to talk about what I love. And I'm not one of those content creators. I'm envious of them. Who can say, you know, I they're crate digging every week.

9:36 These are the 6 tracks. These are who you need to look out for. I do that, but I'm not as quick to the come up because I am in my 30s and have, you know, a husband and a household and whatever. And so it's like really validating to hear that like, just because you're not like hip to the newest thing all, all the time, you can't have a thriving career in music. Absolutely. I and I, it's, it's taught me a lot of lessons in a very short time and that it's never too late to do anything that you love. Obviously there are barriers when it comes to, you know, financial stuff, whatever. But as far as being able to thrive in this space, you know, music, music adjustment, the arts, whatever the world is now completely connected in the sense that like you're, you no longer have to go through the channels, the, the, the traditional channels to reach people everywhere. And so that means that not only is everything popular all at once now, which is just the case, you can see it in all, all genres of music.

10:35 It, it means that there are so many large swaths of people that are desperately looking for something that people are not giving them AD nauseam. You know, I think that the one thing that I've noticed a lot in the DJ space is that it's so over saturated. Obviously there's so many DJs and, and I feel that a lot of people feel that it's important to keep with the trends and keep like, if whatever, whoever posts something like this, OK, we're going to remix that immediately and do the whole thing. And, and that is a that is a way to do it, but you just know that you're competing with so many other people doing the exact same thing. And that doesn't, doesn't mean that you can't carve out your own space and that, you know, multiple things that are the same can be happening all at once.

11:20 The world is huge. But when it comes to narrowing the scope, and especially when it comes to reaching people, I think it's really important, especially in social media, to know who you're trying to reach. And if you can essentially describe your your fan, not even your ideal fan, just your fan, like who you know, based on interactions, who is engaging with you, you start to learn that there are very almost scientific and and strategic surgical ways to reach those people. And so knowing yourself is as an artist is the number one most important thing. And I think just being self aware and knowing like who are you naturally reaching? Who do you ideally want to reach and, and embrace it? You know, because I think that, you know, and I'm speaking strictly for myself, that like I've had to go through many of my own identity crises to understand what I was the best at, like what I was doing naturally. And because I enjoy making music no matter what, I didn't feel like I needed to dig my heels in and be like, Oh, I have to be a, you know, a house artist or I have to, I have to be associated and being cool with these artists. You know, we all want to kind of get into our own cool kids club at some point, But when you realize that as you get older, the cool kids club just becomes what you like and who else likes that?

12:43 And you're not trying to fit in with something that is just not naturally there. Everything just becomes so much more enjoyable. And that's the thing now for me now is about enjoying the ride. It's not about trying to fit in. It's about finding what I can do best and and and really enjoying the process. I think it also comes with age, like understanding that like what you like is cool, and that's all that matters. Yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot over the past couple days because I've had some interactions with people who I just realized aren't super into one thing. And I've hammered on this show and on my social media. Pick your niche, stick to it, like you'll find your people. But I realized that that advice is getting lost on some people because some people just aren't obsessed with something like to that degree.

13:37 And so I think that the advice only really applies when you do have and it doesn't have to be like a genre of music necessarily. It can be anything. But I feel like if if you're just kind of like a I like everything, like what? Like that's not going to work as an artist long term because even though the most popular DJ's in the world, you said John Summit, whatever, they still have a thing about them. His thing is still like frat party, high energy, good vibes, like, you know, you know that archetype, you know. And so it's just I think that's why I naturally like when your content started getting served to me and I was meta, paid attention, I'm like, Oh my God.

14:25 Like, I'm turning this on every time. Yeah. So so you get to reach people who are also obsessed with with one thing this term yacht house that you came up with did. Did you coin that? I I OK, when I say I coined it, I think I was the first person to at least bring it to the surface. I did not see it anywhere else. No, that's kind of the answer. Now, that doesn't mean that it hasn't popped up somewhere like maybe other like there are people that have left comments being like been playing yacht house for 20 years, buddy. It's not new. And I'm like, OK, fine, OK, whatever. But as far as the term, I think they're probably just referring to it being like, oh, you're calling new disco mixed with old yacht rock samples.

15:08 You're just you're calling it yacht house. But we've always been calling this like disco or whatever. Sure. It's the same with essentially with like yacht rock was not a term when yacht rock was at its peak in this in this late 70s and early 80s. It's that it became an endearing term later on. And so, you know, back then it might have been called soft rock or the contemporary, or, you know, jazz rock or whatever. Yeah, but Yacht Rock and then Yacht house is so much like I can picture it in my mind. It's like divorce, dad rock. That's my other favorite one. It's like, you know, exactly. It's like whatever's in like a Toyota Tundra commercial. It's like, you know, divorced dad rock. Totally. And I think a big part of you know, why this works is also comes down to being able to have people have very quick and direct association with something rather than having to make them think too hard.

15:57 Because my motto that I live by, and I've been saying this for over 10 years, is that if you expect people to think, expect to fail because people are moving at an incredible pace through their, you know, their timelines, whatever their feeds. And it obviously becomes much more challenging to get people's attention. And you just can't expect people, even if you've had a little bit of success, it doesn't matter who you are. You know, I think all of us follow our favorite artists and if our favorite artists, you know, they might post because I'm sure they're instructed to in a lot of ways that they might post like 7 to 10 times a week. It doesn't mean that we're paying attention to every single thing that they're posting, but it, it, it just means that, you know, like, like you can't expect everyone to care about everything you do all at the time, you know, so being creative in the, in the ways of content is obviously the biggest challenge in, in keeping people interested.

16:54 And one of the things that I found in this whole yacht house era is that multiple people have said that they just come to my page to like hang out. They'll just flip through and listen to the stuff because a bunch of the stuff that I post is still not out. And so I, I tease a lot of music and then it usually takes about maybe 3 weeks to a month for me to put it all out on one body of work, whatever on my website. And so people will just, they say they're like, yeah, I just come to your page to listen to the loops and kind of get excited for the next one. And, and you know, it's just like a place to chill. And I'm like, OK, so this is what we're doing now. Instead of it being a promotional tool, it's actually a place, it should be a place on the Internet where people can go and enjoy themselves and not feel like they're being sold all the time.

17:38 Yep. And I think that's that's not just for me, that's across the board. Is that you're you? My favorite accounts on our profiles on social media are actually some of these like vaporwave accounts and, and, and especially like architecture and things that kind of pair with it giving you like an Oasis away from the noise, you know, and I think that's a big part of why artists get a little bit lost in the sauce is that they treat their profiles like, like commercials, like promo. And they, you can almost feel that some of these people really don't want to be here doing this. And you know, obviously some of the artists that have had a lot of success pre TikTok, pre social media in general, are not necessarily held to the same standard of having to be as active because they've, they've got a legacy following and they, they pay attention through other means.

18:30 But if you're a new artist or a newer artist, and I'm talking within the last seven years, and that's not really like new, but if you're just starting today, there are incredibly useful ways to treat social media that a will be actually like a good return on your investment, which is mostly time, but also will, will create an environment for people that actually just want to that are they, they look forward to going on Instagram or TikTok for your content. And it's not just a way to like try to reach people in the first 2-3 seconds and hope that they retain the fact that you just put out a song or that you're playing a show or something like that. It has to be like its own little club where people go to hang out and then then you have people's attention and you can start to get a little bit more creative. But you know, it's, it's that's the challenge is figuring out what it is that you provide people, not just fans, but like potential fans, but just people.

19:26 What do you what? What's your what's your haven for people? Right, yeah. And it, and it really just mirrors the experience you're delivering in real life, to which I think is the important thing. People don't, they think they're so separate. And it's like, no, it's, it's all part of 1 flywheel. So when you had this moment where you were frustrated with your career and you didn't really know, you know, what you were going to do next, how did you, because I know a few people going through that right now who have had some success, feel like they're plateauing, don't know how to break to the next level. What did you do to put the pieces together? I, well, I always like to say that the most vague way is I, I did the work, which the work is everyday, you know, I would say six days a week.

20:11 In fact, I would say seven days a week when I decided one day last summer that my abilities as a producer and as a DJ and all these things, I'm like, I, I, I'm very aware of, I'm self aware, but I'm also very, I've become more aware of what's going on in my space, you know, in my, my DJ space, the adjacent to that outward a little bit more. And I realized that I was kind of just burying my head in the sand a lot and thinking like I could trade off of my name and whatever success I might have had like 10 years ago, which is not the case. And so I realized that the work for me was just putting out my body of work, which for me was like, not just the, the originals, but the, the remixes that carried me through some lean years and you know, are a lot of what my DJ sets are. And I realized that so much of what I was doing was just not out there, you know, and even if it was, it was buried on SoundCloud somewhere where it's not getting, you know, and, and I'm talking remixes that I did back in like 20/17/2018. You know, we're getting to almost 10 years on some of these things.

21:16 And to me, they still feel fresh and I play them and people like them, but I'm not doing the work to get them out there. So I literally just started. I I was actually watching probably Levity was probably a really good example of someone who these guys were posting very kind of like low budget. When I say low budget, like no budget, like straight up just in their backyard here in Chicago and like excited. They they, they're smiling and they're happy and they're, they're portraying what their music is meant to make you feel too. They're not just sitting around like they're like, just check out this. Yeah, we have a problem with that in the house music scene, that it's definitely like, you know, like can't, you know, act like I actually enjoy myself, like what I'm doing.

22:05 Silly, yeah. I mean, if you're not your biggest fan, what are you doing? And it doesn't mean that you can't, you know, it doesn't mean you shouldn't be humble about it and be self aware. But you got to be excited, otherwise you can't expect other people to just be excited, you know? It's just not how it works. I mean, and again, watching people like like levity, you could see these, these these were like, they're not even like kids anymore, but they're like you can, you could feel the kid in them that like they are fans first and foremost. They love the music from the other artists that are in their genre and they are truly about just having fun. And that was my my lighthouse beacon the whole time was just that, like, if my contents not fun, why would I expect anybody to care about me in particular? Because I'm not again, I'm not a household name. I'm not someone that people recognize from, you know, back. I didn't have enough of that like SoundCloud era success to stand on something that allowed me to be lazy and, or, or just like lackadaisical, you know?

23:08 So would you say that because you're on tour right now, would you say that the social media content is what led to that opportunity? You also just got signed with an agency, right? Yeah, yeah. I just signed with United Talent, but yeah, the, the, the part that, yeah, it was all social media that got this relaunched essentially. I mean, it was the at some point, you know, obviously like a lot of people will have like a, a viral moment. You know, maybe it's one song, maybe it's one video, whatever. And that's really like you can get a lot out of like a a big moment, but you got to be so, so smart and strategic. And the strategy behind of doing that is knowing that that moment is fleeting and that if you expect people to care about you or you want people to care about what you're doing beyond just that moment, it takes so much work to make sure that you're maintaining essentially whatever momentum you've gotten from that moment.

24:07 And then building that into something that, like I said, it's more than just this like moment of, of people care about one song, one video, whatever. Now you have to provide them a reason why they should care beyond that. And so for me, what really helped was that, you know, look, I'm not, I'm not right now. What's working for me is not original music, it's remixes. And I'm very aware of that. So of course when one or two started to go viral, I was like, oh, OK, well, what else is there under the, you know, what else in this catalog of music could I tap into and still bring my style of production and, and DJing and all that stuff to that, to that music? So yeah, I just like fully leaned into it. And I was, I mean, I'm still making probably like somewhere between 3:00 and 5:00 remixes a week, like from scratch from like, I'm not using AI, I'm not doing any of that. None of the cheat code stuff, just like just bra musicianship like and I'm and I've gotten really efficient with it. So for me, the maintenance of this whole thing is definitely where it gets challenging.

25:11 Is it because as soon as you started to get on the road, it's easy to get lazy as far as like, not posting, You're like, oh, I'm out here, I'm doing the work in and I'm playing shows and I'm meeting people in real life. But that doesn't mean the job online is done. Yeah. And it's easy to get really. Like, I'm guilty of it, you know, going on the road for a few weeks and I'm like, oh, man, I, I haven't posted in a few days or, you know. It's true of any business, by the way, My, my husband owns a remodeling company and we were riding the high of word of mouth referrals for literally 2 years. Never ran an ad, never posted anything on social. Yeah. And then we had a quarter where we're like, fuck, like nothing's coming in and I'm kicking myself as someone who's a professional marketer, but I'm, but you know, I'm busy and I'm like, he's got his, his stuff handled. Like we need to turn on ads.

26:02 And now even when things are really good, I'm like, keep those ads on because that's the engine. Because you never know, you know, So I, I, I point that out to say it's not unique to the artist's struggle. It's literally any business like, you know, and especially in a creative 1 like this word of mouth doesn't exist. We are not a brick and mortar. We're, we're humans. We're not a brick and mortar place that you walk by in the neighborhood and all it's that looks busy. Let's check that out. So you really do have to constantly be putting yourself out there. And I think everyone has a different threshold of what, how often and what cadence works for them. But there's also, and I don't know if you've explored any of these tools, but there's other levers now which are so interesting. You know, one thing, whether people like it or not, burner services where you have a track that you either it's not out yet, but you want labels to, you know, become aware of it, or it's already out.

27:01 You're trying to gain traction. You can hire a company that puts your song on like 20 videos a day and they'll be like random meme videos or quote videos or whatever, and it just floods the marketplace. And that's a tool. Absolutely. And I think that like, it's a valid tool 100%. It's one piece of a strategy. It's one piece of a strategy. And look, the industry of all music industry, but all industries now, cuz obviously all industries are using social media to promote themselves in all ways. And I think that it's fair game entirely of what it takes to get awareness to whatever you're selling. You know, and look, at the end of the day, I, I don't like to say like, oh, what, what I'm selling as a music, but we're all selling something.

27:45 I mean, we're, we're, you know, so whether you choose to use that word or not, but if you're thinking about it from a business standpoint, you are selling a product and if that product is you or services or whatever it is, you need to know how to reach people. Otherwise, I mean, it's to me that's just an A to B type of, of equation. And so when it comes to the creative ways like burner, burner services and stuff like that, it's something I learned like kind of recently. And it's actually something that I don't use it personally just because I haven't gotten that far as far as like promoting maybe a single or something that I, I feel is like worth investing into like a, a third party. But with that same mentality, I have created other accounts and many DJs and artists are doing this on their own where they've got like 5 to 7, maybe 10 accounts on TikTok or Instagram or whatever.

28:36 And because the truth is it, it's incredibly hard to sell yourself, as in representing yourself, whether it be in any, again, any form of industry, you almost want other people to do the selling. For you, the third party validation. Yeah, that like, and that's when people artists are creating tracks and they're thinking about, well, where should I allocate, if I have any budget, that third party validation, all the blogs are bought and paid for getting a post on, you know, EDM, ARMY or whatever. Like you pay for those spots and and that's fine. It's one, again, it's one lever to pull, but I feel like we need to talk about the important flip side of this is with that much more exposure, you also have to be ready for potentially more haters. Like it's very safe to just promote on your channel. Like I know I only do 2 clips per podcast episode because that's all I personally have capacity for because I pick them out myself and I have an editor do it. I don't use AI for anything in this show. And so like, I'm very precious about that. But I know if I really want to start amping up because like people say to me like your show is criminally, criminally underrated, slept on, blah, blah. I'm like, yeah, because I have not turned on one of those services where it's like clip 20 videos, you know, and put it on all these third party accounts, right? And I know I need to do that soon, yeah, if I want to reach the next level.

30:05 But I know, OK, I'm going to start getting exposed to people who don't know me. For the most part, my comments are I'd say 80% positive, which is a really good ratio. Especially in the space that we're in, that you're. In and we're in, yeah. Now if I if I open up those floodgates, it's going to change and I have to be mentally prepared for that. Yes. Have you have you gotten hate comments? Oh. My God, Yeah, Oh my God. And I will say that the ratio so is probably similar like 80% positive. What? Can people say negative to you? Oh, wow. Well, OK, so you don't understand that just as a DJ in general, I, I, I present entirely just as a, you know, DJ, most people, I would say, don't realize that I'm making the tracks that I'm actually playing.

30:49 They just assumed that like I'm hitting a button or that I'm not even hitting the button. And so that's just base level like normal. If you're a DJ and you're on social media, you just got to accept that there's going to be a bunch of people who are like, maybe they're like metal heads or they're just whatever. They don't care about DJs, but they're angry at the world. And it's we're easy targets. So I just accept that kind of stuff. And depending on my mood in each day and how recently I've had therapy, I, I really do my best to not respond in kind. And, and, and as far as the things that people say, people get very personal about their, the music that I'm remixing. And I totally get it because yacht rock in general is meant to be like chill and smooth and relaxing, whatever.

31:37 And I'm in so many ways doing like the opposite of that. I'm making it for the dance floor, but it's the day party dance. So it's not like it's a, you know, big peak hour at live. It's it's, it's purely just a flip, a funkier flip on music that to me is just like was primed for this, you know, But as far as people's comments, I mean, I get everything from people being like, sorry, not feeling it. And it's usually like Barbara from, you know, or, or, you know, so Karen from Oklahoma or some whatever, like not, not. And, and it's not even like all respect to everybody because look, the, the Internet is a democracy and you just have to accept that this is what people do with their time. And I will say that when you do have haters, it means that your content is actually escaped your, your followers. So it's actually getting out there in the explore page for sure.

32:26 So, so that increases the amount of like the amount of people, actual appreciators. So with every 50 follows that I get, you know, I probably get probably 3 to 5 people that are like, sucks. What is this shit? Like, Oh, you're, you know, everything you could possibly imagine. And I'll be honest with you, sometimes it's really hard to to I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a New Yorker. I'm from Long Island. I'm a bit of a hot head when it comes to just. Like my husband's from 2. All these connections. Iowa. What part? Yeah, he was born in West Hempstead, OK. Yeah, what about you, Huntington? So, OK, but but yeah, so we're, we're, you know, Long Island, New Jersey, we're all a bit kind of, you know, we're a little hot to trot.

33:08 But I definitely have learned some lessons from not responding to people. You know, I've got myself in a little bit of trouble. So have I, but it feels so good. It feels so good to do it at the beginning and then I my thing. What I always remember is if someone I wanted to collaborate with, like a big artist team or something, like saw me responding to this, what would they think? Because that shows I'm risky, I'm volatile, whatever. But I also want to be myself, which is I am someone who has, you know, I've always had a mouth, as my mom would say. So yeah, it's like hard because you want to be yourself. And it's like you're coming in my turf and saying, well, you know, so. But like, you can't throw a stone at every dog that barks or however it goes.

33:53 Yeah, you kind of the way I see it is that it's, it's not like, you know, it feels at first that like someone came into your house and started talking to your face. Yeah. And you got to realize that that's not the case. And what you are is essentially a business on the busiest street corner in the busiest city, you know, hopefully, and that your store and everything you're selling is visible to every single person walking by, every type of person that exists on the Internet. And, you know, you spend even more than 10 minutes on the Internet and you obviously see how insane people are, right? And so you just got to accept the fact that, like, you know, if you're in New York City or you're in LA or San Francisco and you're walking down the street, there's a pretty good chance that someone's just going to yell something really obscene or do something really obscene in front of you.

34:42 And what do you respond? Do you do anything? No, you don't go up to that person and start arguing with them. They're nuts, I know. So that's the way I, I try to see it is that there's really no point in arguing with people. And the easiest thing to do, and this is for everybody out there, delete and block. Just there's no people are like, oh, you delete comments. I'm like, yeah, if someone just stops by and says sucks, I'm not going to let them advertise their bad attitude on my page. Sorry, that's 100%. I always say like it's my house, my rules on my page. Like I sure I put it out there which means you can respond, but at the end of the day it's my page, my house, so I can so I can delete it. Absolutely. And you know, and honestly, that's why I don't care. I don't care about.

35:23 It's not like I'm worried about what other people think. Yeah, but if you don't want. About like, I don't want that negativity on my page and there are enough people that are there for positive stuff. So I just say, OK, you don't get to advertise your bad attitude on my. That's not the environment you want to create. So pivoting away from social media for a little bit, what I'm so curious about is like seeing the amount of music you have available on Spotify. Maybe this is like my ignorance here, but like the sample clearing that you've been able to do, Do different rules apply to you or like how have you managed to pull it off? And can you say some of the sample? Like what are some of your top ones that you've been able to? Some of the remixes that have gotten cleared recently since things have been kind of working have been like a like Ride Like the Wind, Christopher Cross remix. I just did a Casey and the Sunshine band. Yeah, that's the way.

36:14 And I think there might be like two others. And then there's a couple other in the work in the works right now. And honestly, the So Wookie is actually a really good example of this because he's had totally much more and. Then I can't release Yeah. He's the reason why I have my team now. I have to give Wookie a lot of credit. He is a true Mensch and linked me with his management and so I'm definitely grateful to him. But he's a a perfect example of someone who used social media to get attention for a bootleg remix. And then great point. You know, it obviously at some point becomes impossible to ignore and as a rights holder, you know, depending on who you are, you look at this as an opportunity and not a not a not like a oh the of a cease and desist.

37:01 It's. Like, well, it had That happened to my brother. Oh, did it really? Missy Elliott? Melissa J Elliott took down one of his songs in 2020. Where was it? Was it on on Spotify or? No, no, it was on SoundCloud and it got really popular. It was, was it a Lose Control remix? OK, it was something it was, it got super viral. I think like since 2020, things have changed a little bit. I think more and more people are becoming hip to dance music and the opportunity in dance music. But he literally got an e-mail from the Law Offices from Alyssa J Elliott. Yeah, it was the whole thing. Well, and, you know, it's interesting to know that because there are definitely some artists and usually it's always like don't remix, don't remix Prince because Prince Estate is like hardcore. But like, yeah, I mean, for me and Knock Wood because like, I know I'm playing with fire probably in some ways. But like, there's so many people doing this to some degree at this point now that it's like you have to really prove that I'm doing some sort of financial damage. Because I think a lot of artists are realizing, like, this is a great opportunity to just keep the stuff, certain songs relevant.

38:12 And look, even though Missy Elliott doesn't need people like me or respectfully your brother, it's that it's some people are still of that old mentality of like, you use my song without permission, right? That's not OK. And you have to respect that it is it is what it is. But I think when like people, you know, if because oftentimes it might not even be the artist, it's their team just doing the takedowns. But if they come to your page and they see, Oh my God, look at this community's building. He's keeping all of this old older music alive and it's all good vibes. There's it's not a black and white no decision, but if you're, but if you're clearly someone who's just trying to like profit off a moment, right, like that's, that's a different story.

38:54 But it's just pretty incredible because I've, you know, I've worked with artists before who like have these amazing tracks and they don't even, you know, even try to get the sample clear. So it just it just like disappears into the ether. It's tough because there is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to clearing samples. If you do it the traditional way, it's costly, it's frustrating, it takes a long time, and you're dealing with, you know, sometimes rights holders, some of them are just dead or the catalog's been sold. But one thing that's going on a lot now with the consolidation of the labels and the publishing companies and all their catalogs is that these newer companies, like these tech companies are buying up.

39:40 They've, they've like broke records is a good example. And I like primary wave and these are houses that are getting the rights, the clearance rights to not only just publishing, but also masters. And as the catalogs get older and they, you know, become more accessible through the change in, you know, the change in hand or whatever of the the ownership, a lot of these catalogs are actually starting to open up to become. Like able to clear very quickly as long as you're like, look, they're not going to just say yes to everybody. Yeah. And obviously, since what I'm doing is is working to a degree, it, you know, we only really try to press the songs that are having an undeniable.

40:26 How would an artist know that the like everything you just talked about, how would they go searching? Because I, I don't think that's how like the creation of music starts. Oh, let me see a sample that I, you know, think could be cleared and then make a song around it. It's usually the opposite. Right, and I actually would suggest people who are getting into that if you're just interested in remixing or you're out, you already are remixing, it's it would definitely be to your benefit to go check out. I don't know if they're readily available. Usually they're like kind of sent internally from management or labels or whatever. As far as the playlists on Spotify they've created like, you know, primary wave, they've done the primary wave playlist of all the songs that they'll send out to people like me and be like, hey, if you feel like you want to remix any of this stuff, it'll be like an easy clear, like green light, like right away, whether or not it's viral, you know, you know, pending like it doesn't suck and they actually like it. But as far as knowing those playlists, I don't know that they're necessarily available like Outward, but Reddit is like everybody's best friend.

41:28 And I think most information on there, if you just like look up like primary wave clearing, you know, whatever sample clearing, whatever, something will pop up. But and I and I wish I knew which labels or whoever they like have combined all their catalogues and like are now the official like big playlist. But yeah, I mean, it's it's really for me again, it's just because I have some people now that are actively working on that. Like I, I will post, you know, in a, in a month, I might have 3 to 5 remix to start to show some real promise on socials, right? Those, and at one point my, my new management were like you, you got to slow down a little bit because like genuinely, we can't keep up with trying to do all these. And I love they're doing an amazing job but like I'm giving them like literally 5 records a month. Yeah, that's amazing though.

42:17 Go go see if you can get these clear. And they're like, OK, so, so they've been amazing because, you know, we like the KC and the Sunshine Band remix, one that I didn't even know was going viral on TikTok as a as a sound. It was actually my lawyer who hit me up and was just like, you know, your remix of that's the way is like going mega viral on Tiktok. I'm like, no, it's not what are you talking about? I'm like, I posted one video with the, with the, you know, with the clip of the remix. And that videos got like, I mean, it had like maybe fifty 60,000 views, which is fine, but that's not viral. And and when it comes, when you're talking about virality on Tiktok, you're with music, you're usually talking about the sound itself has been. Reused.

43:02 So he was like, no click on the sound, like click on the actual like from your video, go click on the sound and look at the number and it was like 120,000 creates at the time and I had no idea. And so I was just like, wow, all right, well, maybe we should try to get this cleared. And it was funny because two weeks prior to that, someone from Spinning Records just cold emailed me and was like, Hey, I would love, we would love to release your, that's the way I like it remix. And to be honest with you, I've had a few people reach out with saying that. But then what they really mean is like, Hey, we would love for you to do a, a sample replay of that and then we'll release it, which basically just says, which means like, hey, go recreate this. And then we'll be your label for that. And I'm just like, that's OK, but no, they wanted to clear the actual sample.

43:51 And I was just like, that's interesting 'cause that ones not really like doing anything. And and then then Eli, my lawyer, hit me up and he was just like, no, dude, like you, it's moving. And then yeah, so. So those are the things like back to like wookies, like I watched him do that. I watched him post, you know, sunshine went crazy viral, you know, age of 17 went crazy viral. And at that point, you're just delivering a beautiful package to the labels or the rights holders being like, look at this, this song is already and you're going to collect 100% of publishing and you're probably going to collect 100% on the master and just give me a upfront fee or, you know, a very nominal back end.

44:31 But this is a win. Like this is a win for you guys. And and it's free money. Yeah, so. And it also just ties back to the point of like, promote the hell out of your music before it has a home because because that's how you get it to a home. Like so many artists have it backwards where they're like, well, it's not signed anywhere yet, so I can't talk about it. I'm like, what? Why are they going to want it if they don't know you? Like what? You need to create the demand first. Yeah, I think the problem is, is that so many artists are still in the mentality of what I call it the old regime, the old guard of things of, of feeling like you have to be precious about your music and keeping it back.

45:12 Because once it once it's out there or once it's on Spotify or once it's on whatever, like nobody's going to want to touch it. And I can tell you right now that is not true because all that matters is if you've got a record, if you got doing doing anything and it is showing promise. Like not just promise, but it's like showing success without any money put into without any label or anything like that involved. Doesn't matter where it's it's, I mean we were watching it Like 20 year old songs are going viral on on TikTok. Dude, Reebok, Robot, you know that song? Everybody is remixing it now and it's, I think it was Hannah Hollander was like the first one to remix it in like 2011. Yeah.

45:55 And it's going super viral again. And like disco lines has a has a remix or whatever. So to your point, like, yeah, you can resurrect things. And also labels want the ready made package. They don't want. They don't want to do the work. They truly don't want to do anymore. And honestly, that's a good thing because it, again, I, I, I think a lot of people have this idea that the music industry is in a very, very bad place. And I think in some ways it is. But it's all depending on how you look at it, especially from an artist standpoint, because never, and I've been doing this and I, I will definitely show my age here. I've been active and trying to get signed or have been signed since 2001. And so I've been in bands, I've been the the hired guitar player for artists, I've been the tour manager, I've been the every, everything I have, you know, every aspect of this industry. I've done it.

46:50 And I can tell you right now it is never been easier to be independent and thrive because everybody's ideas of success is different. But if your idea of success is reaching as many people in the space that you, you know, you kind of belong in and you can do that. You can you can't. I'm not even like questioning like you can do that without spending a dime on ads or, you know, the third party burner services or whatever. The the amount of power that an artist has right now or anyone has right now as a self promoting individual is unbelievable. And all it takes is getting over this whole idea that the algorithm is your enemy and that you you can't do it without XYZ. You can't.

47:38 And the thing that it requires the most of is time and and time and awareness because it's it's so easy to get lost in this idea of like, oh, well, you know, Instagram, they only want me to, they're only going to show my stuff to 10% of my followers. And they want me to spend money on ads. Yeah, that's true. But at the same time, there are there are so many things that people are not doing on a regular basis that could already be getting to be utilizing the free aspect of social media and the way that it's built. And I think a lot of that is just ignorance, like not actually understanding how this stuff works. Like, no, but you know, many people don't know about trial reels. As I know, we're going back to social media, but like, but as far as, again, the frustration behind being an artist is so much of it stems from feeling powerless. And I think that that is so false. Now.

48:31 It's just that people have this fear of failure and looking stupid for like posting something and getting 510 likes or whatever. It's easy to find something to blame because before social media was like all the the labels, the radio, the this, that. But now we have the tool, OK, that can is the great equalizer. And it's like, well, the algorithm, the this, the that. So it's always something to blame. Yeah. So to wrap this up, like you've, you know, you've had an incredible run. I, I, I became aware of you. Gosh, maybe it was like so whenever I talked about you on the Crossfader podcast. A few months ago, probably. March, April. Yeah. And, and I mean you, you're on this incredible trajectory after you've said being in this, in this industry since 2001. What's something that you want to accomplish that that you haven't yet?

49:24 Oh, that's a really good question. For me right now, it's, it's more about selling probably I as an artist in any capacity in any project until this year, I have never sold tickets. Like I truly, even in my the peak of party pupils when you know, Miss Jackson was doing his thing and we had a collab with Oliver Heldens and all this stuff. We really never sold. Like I never really, I never sold out of show. I never sold tickets. I was maybe like, we'd be lucky if we'd sell like 150 tickets in our best market. And now I'm seeing my first sellouts in rooms that I never thought I'd play. And for me, the goal, the end, I guess the end goal here would be to just keep that up at a healthy level. And, and for me personally, I don't want to burn out and I want to be able to enjoy the fruits of my labor. And I'm in a wonderful relationship with my girlfriend who's here right now.

50:21 And it's a huge part of why this has been so successful is just being supportive and helpful. And she's in the videos too. I mean, it's I. Love it. It's my life. It's I'm a very private person, but it's it's the life that I want to live publicly in that I'm enjoying the ride. I want people to have fun. This is escapism and I just want to keep that going for as long as possible. And you know, I'm not I don't care if I don't get to play Madison Square Garden or, you know, if I'm selling out red rocks like that would be great. But like to just have a career right now in this, in this, in this world, not even just in the music business, but just in the state of the world is a true blessing.

51:02 And I can't be more grateful. Like I've I've I've reached many goals already. And if this is it, I'm good. I love that. I love that it's such a grounded perspective that like I don't always get on this show and I relate to you a lot because it's not about it's not about reaching the highest peak because you've you get up there and then you're like, OK, what was I? What was I striving for? It's about building the life that fulfills you and you know, and works best for, for because because you're, it seems like, you know, music is everything, right? When you work in the music industry, like it literally consumes like 98% of your life, but your life is more than music.

51:43 And so it's really important to talk about how it fits into the bigger picture. Yeah, definitely huge. And for every artist out there, please know that yes, this is a full time job, you know, especially when you're just trying to get things off the ground. And it can, it can be all consuming, but it's so important to step out of this role when you can and realize that it's, it's not everything you know, it is it, you know, in so many ways it is like for finances and all that stuff. But like, it's still so important to focus on yourself and things outside of this and give it a break. You know, give yourself a little break every every week. Give yourself a break from this, get some perspective, Go outside, go hang out with, you know, friends, family, whatever it is. Just even if that whole time that you're, you're out there, you're thinking about something here, sometimes that's necessary and you got to give yourself that break. I love it.

52:36 Well, thank you for for joining me. This is awesome. Yeah, I've, I've wanted to be on this podcast and started to talk about it. So thank you so much for having me. Love it. I appreciate it.