$9K Debt to $200K Months: Marketing Events When Nobody Knows You | EF EP 122

0:00 The more times you see the same message in different places, like the more credible it becomes. Yeah. So we put our Instagram reels on YouTube Shorts, we put our Flyers on Pinterest, and like one of our yeah, like one of our Flyers on Pinterest got like 100,000 views. Wow. And yeah, it's crazy. Wow, I never thought about doing that. I wonder how top DJs actually built their careers. I had to do 15 years of hard work to get any of the recognition that I wanted. Where I saw a turning point in my career is when I came true to myself. From marketing and mindset to networking and negotiation, I'm giving you the tools you need to build a lasting career in dance music.

0:41 Give them bits of you and your everyday life. You have to change the way you view the word no. Like me, I'm encouraged by it. Join me, Olivia Mancuso and industry leaders as we reveal what it really takes to turn your passion into profit. This is elevated frequencies. Welcome to your weekly elevation, your dose of real strategies for real results in dance music. I'm Olivia, and today we are diving into a conversation that is packed with probably the most unique marketing advice I've had on this show about how to create content that actually gets people to come out to see you play, whether you're throwing your own event or playing someone else's gig.

1:22 My guest Kyle built his experiential company Thank You for Dancing from Absolutely Zero, and the guerrilla marketing tactics he's used are exactly what artist needs when nobody knows who you are yet. We're talking about how to create buzz, how to get people to actually show up, and how to build something real when you're starting with nothing. If you've ever wondered how to market events or build a following when you have 0 credibility, Kyle is about to break it all down for you. This is one of my favorite conversations. Let's start with thank you for dancing because that was the initial reason I reached out to you. So explain for those who don't know what it is. Yeah, Thank You for Dancing is an experiential company, we'd like to say, which is a professional way to say we throw parties, but we are unique in the sense of, you know, we more so focus on the individual customer experience. So that's unique themes, cool venues, interactive activations, different ideas of how can we make people more so participate in our event.

2:24 So you know, for example, we did like a summer rooftop party series called Club Capri where we had like complimentary cannolis where you there was a big wall, you ring this bell and a hand sticks out of this hole and gives you a cannoli. We had like a giant ball pit oyster shocking. So we do a lot of interactive stuff like that and that's kind of our little niche there that we found. Yeah, and I want to get into all the marketing of your events because it's very clever. But the reason I reached out to you was because of the TikTok that I saw where you were kind of just gapping about the fact that you were in a very different position in your life like a year ago. So explain, explain what you were talking about in that TikTok. Yeah.

3:05 So it just really highlighted my transition and that my, you know, the leap of faith that you take. So I guess to give context, you know, about a year and a half ago, I was working 9:00 to 5:00 in a corporate job. You know, I like my job, but I wasn't happy with like the state of my life because it just felt like I wasn't in control. And there's a lot of things that I wanted. I was ambitious and there's things that I wanted to achieve and I felt like I could, but I didn't really have the opportunity to. And I think that everyone kind of thinks that and not a lot of people do it. And I had spent years and years like I have videos like dating back to college when I was recording myself trying to be an entrepreneur and I had like 4 different businesses.

3:51 That's like failed. So I finally took the leap of faith, just quit my job, didn't know what I was going to do. I had like $2000 or $3000 of income coming in at the time from like a client that I had for my marketing agency that I was starting. And I always told myself I was like, I'm going to get another client before I quit so I can have that safety net. And I, it was like months and months of having this client. I couldn't find another client. So it's like, you know what, I just need to quit and I'll use that time to figure it out. So I quit, We're about two months into this, me quitting, I still haven't found any replacement income. I don't know what I'm going to do. And I'm just kind of thinking, you know, and that's a lot of thing that people do is they just think. And I had these ideas.

4:42 I knew that I was good at throwing events. I did it in college. I did it for my 9:00 to 5:00 company that I worked at. And then I had this idea of Sunday morning club, which was a New Year's resolution that I had, that I wanted to have a good Sunday, every Sunday, and had like a really profound impact on my life. And you kind of see the shift with like run clubs and coffee shop pop ups. And my thesis was people don't like running, you know, people, they don't necessarily like coffee raves. They like the option to do something different than going out to the clubs, than just doing the same repetitive bullshit. So I had these two ideas and I was like, you know what, fuck it, I'm just going to go for it. So I started, I made an Instagram post like just saying, I'm starting.

5:26 Thank you for dancing. Didn't really know what it was going to be. And then I was planning my first ever event, which was at the the Trump Hotel and which was like Max capacity was like 800 total people. And I had no idea how I was going to pull it off because I had never done like a ticketed event by myself up until that point over like 300 people. And that was like when I was working for a company, I had like so much resources behind me and it was like terrifying because I'm like mapping out the PNL. I'm like, Oh my God, I'm going to need like $30,000 to, to do this event.

6:07 Like I don't even have $3000. Like I don't have $1000. I'm already in credit card debt because I'm front loading my lifestyle to try and figure out what I was going to do in the meantime while I quit my job. And so the thing I just kept on telling myself was like, OK, if I put out a good product, if I genuinely do something different, like the money will come. So I just really focus on creating a good product. But leading up to that, there was like so many hurdles. And we'll get to the point which we talked about is like me front loading the event on the card. But I think interesting too is leading up to that moment, that event like almost got totally shut down.

6:52 Like they, the, the venue called me and they said, Hey, we, we can't do this event because they had never really done promoter events over there. And I kind of like weaseled my way in there just to kind of negotiate with one guy that said, let's do it. And then the GM like came from the top down was like, no, we're not doing it. And I already at this point, I already put like $20,000 or it was $10,000 on my credit card, just front loading expenses, paying deposits, paying for decor, different various things for the event. And they're telling me like it's shut down. I remember that day, I woke up that day and I like I was in, I was in my bed till like 3:00 PM just like closing my eyes because I was like, I don't want to face reality. I don't want to get up.

7:35 And I said, you know what? We're going to figure this out. We're going to figure this out. So I just called them up. I go, can I meet with you? They go, yeah, sure. I don't know why you want to meet. Like this event isn't happening. I sat down with them and they they looked at me and they go, This is why this event can't happen. And I remember I'd just go, I understand. You're telling me that this isn't going to happen. Like, tell me how it is. Like, how are we going to make this happen? Like I'm a solutions guy. I'm not a problems guy. And they started rattling off a million different things that had to happen in place for this event. Got it all done. So leading up to this event, $10,000 in credit card debt. Scared shitless.

8:15 Still don't know if tickets are going to sell you know? And then week of we sold like a 400 tickets which put us at like I think it was like 750 tickets total and we made it all back. And that's how it always goes, by the way. It's always the week of. Yeah. So you're just shitting your pants. Oh, yeah. Until a couple days before. Yeah. And the thing was is like, I didn't know that's how it went. Yeah. Like so I'm, I'm with in so much debt on my credit card and already additional debt that I already was in. And I'm just thinking to myself, Oh my God, I made a huge, huge mistake. Like I'm asking my friends, hey, do you know any jobs open up? Like what, what can we do?

8:57 So I, I just stuck to the script though. And I was like, well, we're going to see this thing all the way through. We're going to give it 100%. And then, yeah, like week of 400 tickets come in. It was to this day, I still think it was like one of the best events that I've done, mainly because it was like really authentic. And like now, you know, as things go grow bigger, they get like a little bit corporate, but it was like raw, it was like authentic. It was real and it was. It was perfect to me. Wow, that is quite the story. You just described so many things that you know the majority of my audience is DJs but also event producers and DJs who want to be event producers but are too scared to take the leap because of everything you just said. Credit card debt would if nobody shows up. How many times have I heard the same story of events, venues trying to pull out at the last minute? Which is a crazy thing.

9:53 I mean, I've heard that a million. I, I've can't believe I haven't experienced it yet, but it's such a common thing. Did you feel any sort of regret for leaving your job at the time? Yeah, I was like, I was scared shitless. I was wondering in my head, like, will they take me back? Wow, you know, but I think that that's like when you feel that feeling, I it's like almost like you, it's like an indication that, you know, you're in the right spot. And I truly believe that that, like fork in the road is really what like separates the people from, you know, who do great things and, and who don't. It's like, do you have the persistence or just like keep pushing through that like unbearable feeling. That's like everything inside you was telling you, just go back, go back.

10:40 This is too much, Like, let's be safe. And I wanted to do that a million times. I've sometimes I still have like moments in that where I'm like, this is too much. Like we're not getting a break. Like, is this the life I want to live? Like I, I'm stressed out constantly, but if you always just like breakthrough that wall, it's like always so fulfilling and so rewarding. So that was like the my first true test and I'm, I'm so happy that that like happened early on because it like taught me so much where I'm like, OK, shit hits the fan, stick to the script and just keep going. But it's not an education you can get by like studying theory. You have to go through it. You have to.

11:23 And when you come out on the other side and you're like, I survived, it's you feel like a badass and it gives you the confidence to do the next thing. So after that event, because after you throw your first successful event, you get like 5 minutes to celebrate and then you realize, OK, shit, what do we do next? Yeah, yeah, great. So what happened after that first successful event? Yeah, so we had we had an an event at Castaways. It was like a Tulum themed event, which was it was, it was good, but the same exact event. But after that I was kind of like, I always want to move forward. Like I never want to like move backwards to me like that event after what was almost like a backwards movement because it didn't live up to the same expectations that I had set, like with the Philadelphia Vita party, which was the one at the Trump Hotel. And so I just like immediately set my eyes to Halloween. And I was like, OK, we took over this venue Timeout Market 3, three stories.

12:23 It was like a like a $50,000 budget, a thousand 5200 people. And again, like one of those things where it's like, shit, I don't know if I can do this. And you know, by the skin of our teeth, we did it. But I think there was even more, which I love in the story for me is then in my next one was Saint Patrick's Day and I'm like, OK, like the biggest holiday in all of America, debatably for drinking. Chicago for. Sure. So 100%. And so I was like, OK, let's go big. So we took over recess and City Hall for the entire day and we were aiming to do 5500 people.

13:05 And I remember I kept selling like my business partner and I was like, dude, I don't know if we can do this. I do not know if we can pull this off. And now I always feel like whatever I set a goal, I feel like I, I shouldn't be able to do it. It's like if I if if whatever I'm trying to reach for, I feel like I can easily do it, then why am I even like what's? The point totally, you always have to be just outside of your comfort zone. That's that's how you grow. I feel that way too for when I set prices for things like consulting, when DJs just say yes to my like I'll say yeah, this, you know, one hour conversation is XML and they say yes, I'm like, shit now I got to up it like 3 people said yes to that. You know, it's it's the same it's the same concept. But yeah, you have to like, fear is such a great motivator, as long as you can harness it.

13:56 No, it, it, it really is. I, I always right now I feel like I was just saying this the other day. I was like, I feel like I'm a little bit, I'm a little bit complacent and it probably means I'm not like taking enough risk or like what I'm doing like isn't exciting. And I always need like something to kind of like snap me and be like, OK, you're think you're hot shit. Like let's humble you and let's put something on your plate. Like let's reach for that next level. And I, I did the same thing like this summer where we did, you know, after we did the Saint Patrick's Day event, which we, we sold out like 4 weeks in advance, which was absolutely insane. So now this year we're going to go even bigger. But and then we look to summer.

14:38 We're like, OK, like let's, we're kind of figuring out the playbook here. Kind of know what we have to do. We understand like what, what sells, We understand how to market it. We know where target demographic is. So this summer we, I was like, OK, let's, let's, let's really try and knock this out of the park and let's take advantage of summer because people want to go out and they want to go out constantly. So we did 20 events throughout the entire summer. We did 10 Club Capri events, our Villa Dolce Vita at the Trump Hotel. Again, we did 4th of July at recess we did Banter Supper Club, which was like a dinner party. We did four of those and then we did like 2 yacht parties. And again, like at the beginning of the summer, I was like, fuck, dude.

15:25 Like I don't know. I don't know how we're going to pull this off. And the other thing that was scary too was every single venue that we're working with, we're locked into minimums. So like the the Trump Hotel, you know, we're $70,000 minimum. I don't meet 75. The bar doesn't rank $70,000. I have to pay out the difference every other party. It's a 30 thousand 40,000 like very, very high minimums because the events we're doing are usually like around 1000 people. So just alone as like we don't meet the minimum. There's hundreds of thousands of dollars that were potentially having to pay out and then not even mentioning the fact that all of our productions are usually, you know, I'd say like the minimum production for an event is like $40,000. Wow.

16:12 So OK, so you said you'd you had some event experience in college. What was your day job before you you went into this? I was I did marketing for aid hospitality, so I did I marketing and events and promoting. I guess you could say too, I was kind of like a my 9 to 5 was marketing, but on the weekends I was also like a promoter was just kind of like an expectation of the job. So yeah, you work for the company, you got to bring people into the venues. Sure. So you you have experience in this realm, but you still we're starting an experience from scratch. So you had to get people to know about you, care about you take the risk of spending money on something that you put together. And that's where I think the most valuable lessons are going to be for the artists listening because so many of them want to throw their own pop ups because it's a great way to get content. It's just a good way to book yourself when you're not getting booked by anybody else.

17:08 Talk to me about some like foundational marketing principles. If you're trying to get people to spend money on a ticket to gather in a place, what are the things that you did in the beginning to just put your name in the ether? Yeah. Well, to market, well, I had to be able to have a good product and give myself like talking points to talk about, you know, if I were to just make a video and say, hey, we're throwing a party at, you know, the Y club and there's going to be these DJs that you don't know and we're going to have drink specials. Like I'm going to see that and like, I don't give a shit. Like, so I'm always like product 1st and then we'll go to the marketing second.

17:50 Because if I can have a bunch of enticing things about my product, then it's going to naturally sell itself. And all I have to do in the marketing is just simply talk about the product. So like, for example, we were for our Saint Patrick's Day party, you know, our tag lines where we were Chicago's biggest Saint Patrick's Day party, which was true. We had four stages, a silent disco cave, mechanical bowl, leprechauns. We had complimentary tattoo stations and we had like complimentary palm reading stations. So tons of things for different people to do when like tons of things for different people would see that and be like, holy shit, I want to go to that. Like I want to experience that. I want to go get a tattoo on a ride the mechanical bull like 4 stages with 50 DJs like sure, sign me up.

18:35 So what is it that you're doing that is unique? Is your you doing like a pop up that's at like a unique location? Is it like a boiler room? Is it something unconventional? I would always make sure that what you're doing like stands out and then it's going to be easy to market. But in terms of of marketing, and I'll say this that I feel like most people can actually put this into practice. Is is 1 just take shots at the board, like just post and post relentlessly. People think that they can put out like one video and like that's going to do the trick. No, I'm, if you look at my TikTok, if you look at my Instagram, you know, for an event, I'm usually putting out like 10 pieces of content just for one individual event. You know, for like our Club Capri, which is our rooftop series.

19:27 We made an entire Instagram dedicated to it. We had like 70 posts. Was that the one where the girl was in the tub? Yes, that was on the girl on the tub. That was that was I was surprised to see that type of video here, that stuff. Those are stunts you see in like LA, New York. So doing that here in Chicago for people who haven't seen it, it was literally a like a very beautiful girl in a tub. Was it outside the Chicago theater? And she had like rubber duck. She was asking for money. Yeah, she had a cardboard sign that said like, need money for Club Capri. All the reactions of people walking by, I mean, that was it was very surprising to see content like that in Chicago. And so that's just, you know, you thinking outside the box and my so I have an event.

20:15 Do you know my business partner, Matt Sherman? OK, so we have an event, Chicago Music Nexus. It's a business conference. And for DJs, last year was our first year and we were like, OK, we have no evidence of this event because it hasn't happened yet. So we also have to get creative with the content. OK. Yes, yes. And so we, we walked around the bean with signs that's looking for DJs. Are you a DJ? Whatever. And it was so embarrassing for me because like, it's just not I, I used to be a TV reporter and I used to have to walk around and interview people on the streets. Like I'm like, I have PTSD from that. But I did it because we had to do something out-of-the-box. And of course, there's no DJs at the Bean. And so all the comments were like, why the fuck are you at the Bean? That's how are DJs hanging out? Like, OK, thank you for the engagement. But we made like that that video alone like sold like 7 or 8 tickets at $150.00 price .0.

21:07 That's great. You know, so I mean, the artists that listen to this podcast are very, for the most part, very open to making content. Like they're ready and willing. But it's like the thinking outside the box that sometimes gets difficult knowing that you have like all these years of marketing experience is kind of ingrained in you. But do you have any suggestions for them to, you know, just sometimes talking heads videos work just fine, but what else can they be doing? Yeah, yeah. Well, one, don't reinvent the wheel. Look at what people are doing that are successful and, and and don't copy them, but take your own spin on it.

21:49 You know, it's it's almost impossible to be like 100% original nowadays and age like there's so much shit that's already been out there. So definitely look at people that are successful. And the other thing too is 1, just start like creating IDs. Everything that you make, you don't have to post. So sometimes people have an idea and they won't follow through with it because they're like, well, what if it's like a bad video and I don't want to post it? Well, that's fine, then don't post it. But at least you got the repetition and you got the skill because you're going to get better as you practice it more. The problem is, is like people aren't practicing it enough. When I first started doing content, like I had marketing experience, but I never had experience making videos until I started doing it for my own business. So like, yeah, like your your comment on like, yeah, we had years of marketing experience.

22:43 Honestly with like the way that I market now, I never had that experience. It was more like traditional, like e-mail marketing, Facebook ads, you know, grassroots marketing type stuff, dealing with promoters. It wasn't like, let's come up with like a really creative marketing campaign. But the, The thing is, is like, OK, let's figure out what our message is. Like what is our message that we want people to take away from it? And like, what's the most creative way that we can possibly communicate that? So like I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll give an example. So this is a video I haven't created, but we're in the process of finding actors for it. We have this, we're promoting our Halloween event and so am I OK? Like, what's a part of Halloween and say, OK, it's scary. And like, what's the message?

23:32 We want? We want people to come to our event. We want to promote our event. OK, How can I attract people's attention and then be able to communicate a message? So the concept of the video is I'm going to go around and like, jump out and scare people and give them free tickets to my event, but it's actually going to be staged. And I'm going to, like, jump out. And then I'm going to pay these two actually just like, actually beat the shit out of me and like, throw me in a dumpster. And then my cameraman's going to run over. Like, are you OK? Are you there? And I'm like, death by disco, Like 6 stages, 2 days, 80 DJs, blah, blah. Get your tickets. And when you say like 1, when you say it out loud, you're like, OK, that sounds silly.

24:14 Yeah, but those ideas work. Because. People. It's the magic you make in the edit too, because shooting it too always feels so fucking awkward. And then you edit it together and you're like, all right, this is actually. Funny. And I think that videos like that where it's, it's raw and it's off, it's like a little organic and it's funny works because people don't want to be sold to anymore. And I think that that's why, you know, influencer brands are able to compete with like massive corporate 500 brands. And you're seeing like the rise of all these different influencer companies just absolutely take over by storm in comparison to these, you know, Fortune 500 companies that have this massive budget and still are, are unable to compete is because people want to buy from people like they they're sick of ads.

25:06 So everything we do is like on iPhone pretty much. And do you use, because a lot of the, the content I've seen about your events has been from other people. So is that just naturally happening or are you using an influencer strategy like a like a UGC strategy to get people to post about your events? Yeah, of course. Like if I'm the only one talking about it, then like what credibility do I have? But actually we, yes, we do use UGC. We do have influencers talking about events. But actually the majority of the stuff that I do see online is like organic, which is crazy. I want to just like to qualify what I'm saying like I think that's a great thing. And I think that's something that's very underutilized by artists who are also trying to throw events because a lot of people will just do it for free tickets, you know, if they're like a smaller content creator.

25:59 But that doesn't necessarily mean that they don't have a big poll. Oh, well, the the good thing about social media is anybody has a chance to go viral. Like it's not the way that the Instagram and TikTok have modified the algorithm as anybody can make it like anybody can go viral. So yeah, absolutely, if if someone's willing to talk about your product, what you're doing help put you on like they have 50 followers, who gives a shit? Like it's not going to hurt you. So again, like marketing to me is like shots at the board and distribution. It's like, how can I get my message on like a million different channels? And the more, the more times you see the same message in different places, like the more credible it becomes. So we put our Instagram reels on YouTube Shorts. We put our Flyers on Pinterest, like one of our yeah, like one of our Flyers on Pinterest got like 100,000 views. Wow.

27:00 And yeah, it's crazy. Wow, I never thought about doing that. Yeah. So we're, I'm like now I'm giving away the sauce, but you are we're I'm like, I want to be everywhere. Yeah. Ubiquity, that's, that's a goal, that's that should be a goal for anyone in this industry. A lot of, a lot of pushback that I get about like throwing your own event, whatever is, we're in tough economic times. People don't have the capital. Obviously not everyone is. A lot of people are risk adverse, right? They don't want to put $10,000 on a credit card. How, how have you been able to persevere despite people spending less right now 'cause you're doing hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue, your business is right?

27:48 So how, how is that possible 'cause I I want people to see that it's possible for them too. Well, I think that I think that people are spending less on their average night out. Like, and that's like there's statistical studies that will back this up. People are drinking less and they're they're, they're going out less frequent on the weekend, but that doesn't mean they're not going out anymore. What it actually means, what has been found is that people are more careful. They're more thoughtful of where they're spending their time out and where they're spending their money. So that's why you're seeing like, you know, people are putting a lot more money into experiences and like that's the business that I'm in.

28:32 I'm in the business of experiences. So you know, nothing about our events is like an average night out. You know, there's crazy decor, unique themes at very cool locations and interactive activations. So people are more likely to spend towards that. And it goes back to what I'm saying, it's like, it's all about like the product. If you're genuinely putting out something that is worth paying for, like people will pay for it. But that's The thing is, is like the market will decide your value. You know, if you can't sell a $20 ticket, I don't know if that's like an indication of like the economic, the economy, like not being in favor because there's other people that are doing it.

29:17 So if there's other people are doing, it's like then doesn't mean it's impossible, means that you just need to change the game plan. You're maybe got to step it up a little bit. So yeah, I would say again, I, I think that like, you know, I can sit on here and preach marketing and say that you need to have distribution and come up with unique marketing videos. But if you aren't selling something that is a value that people are actually genuinely interested in, then it's never, it'll never work. I really like that you said that because I think there's a lot of, I'm sure you've seen this just from being on TikTok in general. A lot of people like the what about me ISM and well, I don't have this and I can't do that.

30:04 And it's like, if you want to compete now and this shouldn't, this should encourage you. It shouldn't discourage you. Like you have to put out something that's worth paying for. And you know, I've had a lot of nights going out where I'm like, that wasn't fucking worth it. But it's OK, It happens. It happens. It doesn't stop me from trying again somewhere else. The other thing is, is there's so many niches out there. There's so many different things people want to experience. Create a niche that you're obsessed with, that you love and like you're naturally going to draw in a community. Yeah, yeah, I mean to, to we've talked about like the, you know, the thank you for dancing, but I'll, I'll also speak on like the inverse of this is, you know, you're talking in regards to niches is the other thing that I have is called Sunday morning Club, which basically the breakdown of that is it's kind of like the exact opposite of thank you for dancing, more health and Wellness focused. The concept of it is to have a good Sunday and that can come in the form of like basically anything. So when I'm figuring out with that is 1 art what what was what, what's the problem that I'm solving? It's that it was my own problem that I have that I was just wasting my Sunday.

31:20 And I realized that's not a unique problem to me. That's a universal problem. I mean, that's something that people deal with in all of America and not the world. And so that can come in like the form of like basically anything. But what we did was we did. And then it goes back to what is our value proposition, what's unique about us, what makes our product good. So we first started Sunday morning club. We do it on the summers on Oak Street Beach. We had cold plunges, we had beach volleyball, we had yoga classes. We had complimentary juice shots that were from this guy didn't name the juice man. He would come and give free juice shots and like that's that doesn't cost 10s of thousands of dollars. And we started that last year about the same time as thank you for dancing.

32:13 First one we had there was, you know, maybe I think like maybe 11-12, something like that. People came by like week five, week 6, we there was like 400 people like it was, it was absolutely insane. But it one goes back to we had a good product. I know I knew that my product offering was good. It was things that people enjoyed and we offered it for free. Which is easier when you're capitalizing on the outdoors, the Chicago weather? Totally. And my marketing strategy was post five times a week, post five times a week because we need to get our message out there. And I believe that my message was good. So I was like, OK, if my message is good, my products good, all I need to do is literally just talk about it. And we had like one video that went viral. And it was funny.

33:07 It was funny. The one video that went viral was the one video that I debated not uploading. It was like literally this super raw video of me just talking to the camera. And this was it is the only thing I said. I go every Sunday. Someone has the best every Sunday. Somebody has the best under their life. Why not you? And like, we just put like some text overlay on it and it looked horrible. And it was like Oak Street Beach every Sunday, blah, blah. And when I I consider not uploading because I was like, what is this? Like this isn't, this isn't anything like the videos I was uploading. I was spending hours editing like making sure they're so polished, so, so neat and and presentable to Instagram.

33:50 And this video, it flopped off the RIP, but like 4-3 weeks later, like some for some reason it just like went viral. And that taught me as like just post it. Yep. Like you don't think it's gonna do well, Like you don't know. You really don't You're. Not gonna. It's not gonna kill you. I think sometimes now people focus on being perfect. Like everything that I put out, it's gonna severely impact my brand image. Hey, brother, you don't have a brand image. Yeah. You don't have 1 yet. Right, yeah, you don't have so the, the things that you do early on actually don't really matter, right. But like, what's going to make your brand image is what you figure out works in the process, and you're not going to figure out what works if you're not fucking doing anything so. Preach and and also like the, the more you do it, the less you care.

34:51 Like I'll just post stuff from like I have a hair sticking, you know, straight up whatever, I don't care. You know what I mean? Like you start to not care about those little things because it's more important just to get the message out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's still times where I do care and I have to like sometimes I'll post things just to be like, Yep, this is just kind of like a reminder that you know, it. One, it doesn't matter. And two, people, even if people are saying things about it, they I'm never going to know. Like why does it matter? Like, like it's OK, sure, send it behind my back. I don't. Care. It's an amazing thing not to care. Yeah, it's it's an amazing thing not to care about that. Yeah, and that's a skill that's like developed over time and I still do have that like I I have that about more. So like, I do want to post like more like raw behind the scenes videos about my life.

35:48 I'm like my personal Instagram and I I still struggle with that where I'm like, you know, I do go to post. I got to make sure that this is all perfect. But then I, I, I do post and I just remember, I go, Oh yeah, I forgot. Like no one really gives a shit. Well, the personal video is what is how what made me reach out to you? Yeah, yeah. Because I've, I've been very aware of your events for, you know, the past year. But that was the thing where I was like, OK, this this guy has a very unique perspective. He has that story that I think is is worth telling to my audience. So last question for you, going back to the beginning, talking about when you knew it was time to make the leap because I had my own similar, like I had hit rock bottom with my full time job and I was like, I can't do this anymore. I need to work for myself.

36:37 And I drove to Target and I bought an $8 journal and I like wrote out my game plan And I was like, this is what I'm going to do. And if it doesn't work in the next three months, then these are the backup trigger triggers I'm going to pull. You know, I'll go babysit, I'll go work at a bar again, whatever it may be. And I never had to get to that point because I was just so focused on Plan A, but it was like the best day of my life. What What advice can you give artists who are looking to get into the music space full time, want to work for themselves full time? What's that thing that is going to tell them, that voice in the back of their head that, yeah, now is the time to take the leap?

37:18 Is it when you can't sleep at night is when you literally, like, cannot get yourself out of bed because you hate your job? What is that thing? I, I, I think that my answer probably is not going to be the answer that people want to hear is, is like, you're not going to know. Like there's, there's, there's never going to be some revelation of a perfect moment. You're like, oh, this is the time I quit. Like this is the perfect opportunity. Like there's never, ever going to be a perfect moment where all the stars are lying and you go, oh, shit. Like this is like the time is right now. It's, it's whatever you make it like it's very easy to look back and identify that a moment was a perfect moment. Like I look back on the way that everything happened for me and go, Oh my God, that was perfect timing. But in the moment, I was scared shitless. I didn't know if it was going to work, but I knew that I didn't like what I was doing.

38:17 I wasn't happy and I wanted more for myself. So I am a massive, massive believer of trial by fire. Throw yourself off the deep end and put yourself in a position where the only option is to succeed. Because if you're in a position where you have the safety net of your job, you know, you have something to fall back on, then you are never really going to go after something 100% because there's something in the back of you that says like, this doesn't work out. You know, it's OK. Like, it's not a big deal. I actually, prior to my job or prior to me quitting, you know, when I was at my 9:00 to 5:00, I went out three times a week. I was smoking weed every day.

39:10 I got up late. I was never known as a hard worker. Never. I wasn't known as, you know, an intelligent guy like whatsoever. And I didn't think of myself as that either. Like I, I, I kind of like let society like, yeah, you know, I'm not that smart of a guy. Like maybe I'm not like destined for success, you know, maybe I'm not going to be able to figure out. But I told myself I'm like, OK, I'm going to give myself at least one legitimate try and then I'll, I'll decide if what type of person I am. So when I quit, I discovered like this complete other side of me that was like totally unlocked by yeah, like this fear of holy shit, if this doesn't work out, like this time, I'm actually fucked, Which is that is good advice and bad advice depending on like the outcome of the situation, because people could take that advice and they could actually hit home or people can take of that advice and it doesn't work out.

40:12 But like that is the unfortunate reality is it's and you'll never. Know if you don't try? Yeah. Yeah, you, but but I think that would you rather 10 years from now try and then had failed or than not try at all. And I think that everyone would be like, yeah, like try and then fail. And then the beautiful thing is, is my biggest teaching moments have been in failure. Like it's something you always you have to fail to succeed. You don't realize how true that is until you're actually like live it for yourself. And I really like what you said earlier is people think that they know like, like success in this, like based off like theory. It's like, oh, I see this guy's story and like, he did this and like, you think that you know it, but you don't actually understand anything until you live it for yourself. It's like when you get advice from your best friend and they're trying to tell you to do something. You don't listen to them.

41:09 And then, you know, you have to learn for yourself. And then it happens. You go, oh, OK, I understand why you're telling me that now. So at least at least give yourself the give yourself the benefit of just actually trying. And if it doesn't work out, I promise it won't be the end of the world like it always seems like it is. But if you look from like a macro perspective, you know, you zoom out, even if it does fail six months later, what what? You're going to be fine. You're going to be fine. But people need to take more risk and I think that the world is a better place when people pursue their dreams, so just go after it. Bam, the perfect note to end on.

41:57 I really appreciate you doing this. This is this is just the real world shit that people need to hear. My pleasure, thank you for having me on. Here's what I need you to understand from Kyle's story. If you're struggling with something and you think you're the problem, you're probably not. When Kyle said he never thought he was intelligent or destined for success when he was working as nine to five, I felt that in my soul because I thought the same exact thing about myself. I was always just average, nothing special in any of my previous jobs, and it wasn't until I left to start my own thing that I realized I actually am a hard worker when I'm aligned with my purpose.

42:38 Purpose. I work every day now, seven days a week, and I love it. Your work ethic, your drive, your entire output changes when you're doing something that actually matters to you. The message here is not that you have to quit your day job tomorrow. It's that if you feel stuck, if you feel like you're not living up to your potential, the problem might not be you. It just might be that you might have not found your thing yet. So stop doubting yourself and start experimenting. Your breakthrough might just be one bold decision away. That is your weekly elevation. Remember, success in dance music isn't about luck, it's about strategy. I will talk to you next week.