Drawing Inspiration from Outside the Music Industry with Bijou | Elevated Frequencies #30

olivia (00:28.833)
Yeah, I was doing a little bit of research on you ahead of the show to see if you've done any other interviews and I learned a lot of interesting things that I want to expand on. Okay, but first of all, let's cover the basis. So I'm very interested and maybe this is like a little bit of my ignorance, but you're

Ben Dorman (00:40.643)
Okay.

olivia (00:50.321)
You make G house and G house is very familiar to me living in Chicago, but I did not know that it like reached Arizona. So like, how did you and G house come to be?

Ben Dorman (01:01.422)
So it's funny because I saw you had done the episode with Destructo and my first introduction to it was from him. He had played hard, I forget what year it was, I think 2011, it might have been Day of the Dead or Hard Summer, and he played this song by Torn Foot called Rondo. And I was like, wait, I'm a huge hip hop head. So I was like, they made house music and they put hip hop lyrics over it. And there's like these bass sounds that come from like West Coast hip hop.

olivia (01:08.836)
Mmm.

Ben Dorman (01:29.93)
What is this? What's going on? And I was like addicted immediately.

olivia (01:33.853)
Yeah, that's cool. It's, um, that's the best part about house music is that it takes influence from all these other genres and you can make it what you want to make it.

Ben Dorman (01:44.502)
Mm-hmm. Literally. You can pull from everything. And that's what I do now is like, I'll literally pull sounds from like dubstep or trap or things of that sort and be like, well, this will fit here. This will fit here. And I feel like that's how you can be innovative and kind of do your own thing and be your own artist.

olivia (01:50.925)
Mm.

olivia (01:59.145)
Yeah. And I'm sure it helps keep it fresh too, because I'm not a producer, but I know a little bit from my friends that sometimes you could be sitting looking for like the perfect drum sample or whatever forever. And it's like, you get so deep into it. Sometimes you do need to take a step back and like think about, well, what do they do in other genres? Maybe that helps like spark creativity.

Ben Dorman (02:18.906)
100%, and I think that sparks my creativity the most. Like, I don't really, this is gonna sound crazy. I don't really even listen to house music. Yeah, like 95% of what I listen to is hip hop. And I just pull a lot from that. But also, like in my belief is like, if I'm listening to a bunch of house music from all of these artists subconsciously, that's gonna creep into my mind and that's gonna come into my music. And now I'm not being original.

olivia (02:27.949)
Really?

olivia (02:34.089)
Okay.

olivia (02:49.201)
That's a really good point. It is a subconscious thing because I think like, just the simple fact that songs get stuck in your head without you even realizing it, and you're just humming to yourself and you're like, did I just hear that in the grocery store or whatever? I could see how that could creep into your brain when you're producing.

Ben Dorman (03:05.419)
Yeah.

Ben Dorman (03:09.082)
100% and I'll find that is I'll be working one day on a song and then I'll come out of like that space of flow and listen to it and like actually listen. Be like, oh, that's the baseline from that song that I've haven't been able to stop listening to for the last three days. So we're going to have to change that.

olivia (03:26.517)
Yeah, that's funny. I never thought about that. Yeah. And that's like a big deal because you don't want to unintentionally like, plagiarize or, you know, not be original. So, so I'm really interested because this show is all about like, yes, the music, but more so the creative entrepreneur behind it. And the challenges that come with being a creative entrepreneur.

and more importantly, the triumphs. And what I learned about you is that like, you were like on the edge of saying like, music might not be for me, like I don't think I can do this anymore, but then something changed. So walk me through that.

Ben Dorman (04:05.262)
So it was 2015. So in that timeframe, G-House had kind of shifted, right? Amin Edge and Dance were really big. It was huge in Brazil. It was decently sized in the UK. But it wasn't really a US sound yet that had gotten big. So as someone who strives to be innovative, it was difficult for me because I have to kind of create this...

full space from nothing. You know, like, yeah, Destructo was doing it. Dr. Fresh was doing it. Wax Motif was doing it. But like, there's no one from Arizona doing it. People don't really look at Arizona as like a source of house music, you know? So I kind of had to develop this scene here and then take it elsewhere. And I was ready to quit. And I had a relationship with Wax at the time that was like, we were somewhat close. And I sent him an email. And I go, Hey,

Here's this new song, it was called I'm a Dog. And this is something I just finished. I'm just at the point now where I'm ready to quit and do something else. I don't know what I'm gonna do with my life. I had retired from playing professional baseball and it was just like, I'm gonna try and figure this out. I was working at Jersey Mike's, you know, just making sandwiches, trying to make it happen. And he never responded. And I was just like deflated, you know? But a few weeks later, he used to do this thing on Facebook where he'd put his...

top 10 songs of the month. And when he posted that, the song was number two. So I was like, okay, maybe he didn't respond to the email, but this is even better. And that like kickstarted me to be like, okay, I'm not gonna quit. Maybe I have something here. Two weeks later, Tony, Dr. Fresh signed that song to his label at the time, Prep School Recordings. I was like, okay, we gotta keep going. And within that two week timeframe,

olivia (05:42.644)
Yeah.

Ben Dorman (06:00.566)
I had a couple meetings and this is funny because I haven't told this story very many times but I got a call about working with Kevin Federline and random right? And I was like at the time my manager calls me he's like yo I'm at work so I'm like not even supposed to be on the phone he's like hey Kevin Federline needs a new producer.

olivia (06:15.041)
What?

Ben Dorman (06:27.676)
What do you think about that? And I'll go, I would rather work at Jersey Mike's. And I hung up.

olivia (06:33.588)
Shut up. Oh my god. Shut up. Okay. That's a great answer by the way. You passed. Uh-huh. So okay. So then what happened?

Ben Dorman (06:34.37)
Yeah.

Ben Dorman (06:41.275)
Thank you.

Ben Dorman (06:44.898)
So I keep working, right? These things are happening. I'm excited. I'm like, cool, whatever, I'm just gonna work. Two weeks later, everything came in two week timeframes. It was weird. And I get another call and Thomas is like, yo, Kevin's coming to town. He wants to meet, he wants to have dinner. And I'm like, dude, I already told you no. I don't like repeating myself. Like, he's like, just have dinner with him. Just at least meet him. I'm like, cool. We're gonna go to dinner, blah, blah. Pick the place. And I meet him.

And he's like the nicest dude in the world. Like would give you a shirt off of his back. So I learned, yeah, I learned two things that day. One, don't judge a book by its cover, right? Because obviously in the media, he's getting destroyed as Britney Spears' husband, as this bad guy. And two, don't shut down opportunities immediately until you really understand the full scope of them.

olivia (07:18.017)
Really? Okay, plot twist.

olivia (07:41.397)
Alright, you got me there. That is a good point.

Ben Dorman (07:44.834)
But I mean, I was a 25 year old kid that had no idea what I was doing. So I was just like, nah, I'm good. I don't want anything to do with that. And we started working together and I quit my job two weeks later.

olivia (07:57.729)
No way. So Kevin Federline was your parlay into a full-time music career.

Ben Dorman (08:04.598)
He was a piece of it, yes, but he was the big, he was like the piece that really changed it.

olivia (08:11.925)
Wow. Okay. I'm processing. That is a crazy, that's a crazy story, but you made a really good point. I have, I've like eaten crow before from doing the same thing, like saying no to something automatically. And then you realize, okay, now I have to backtrack. And that's embarrassing. So, but it's cool that you took the meeting.

Ben Dorman (08:16.036)
Hahaha!

olivia (08:40.213)
You did it with grace and look at where it took you.

Ben Dorman (08:43.146)
I'm not even gonna front. I literally took the meeting because I was a broke kid and just wanted to have a nice dinner.

olivia (08:48.193)
that's valid. That's valid. And I love that you're so open about the Jersey Mike's thing, because I feel like a lot of people in this day and age of like influencing and flexing or whatever, they don't want to show that they like built something from nothing. Like they, they want to make it seem like they always had it like that, you know? Um, and I think it's really important to hear, cause this is, this is the reality for majority of producers is

You know, they didn't get the golden ticket. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of nepotism and whatever, but that's not the case for the majority of people.

Ben Dorman (09:26.278)
And it's like, I personally think that to have that struggle and know how it feels to not have a whole lot kind of pushes you to want to have a, like it pushes you even harder to be like, okay, this is what I really want with my life. This is what I want to do with my life. If I hadn't gone through that and like my parents, like my parents have done a great job, I can't front. But they didn't just hand me everything.

olivia (09:54.261)
Yeah.

Ben Dorman (09:54.37)
They're like, you gotta work for this. I was living at their house. They were nice enough to be like, you don't have to pay rent. You can just go work. And I was fortunate enough during that time, the year and a half I worked at Jersey Mike's, to take any money I had and travel around the country, meet promoters, meet people in the industry, anyone in the scene to try and connect with all the people I possibly could to make it happen.

olivia (10:17.689)
That's awesome too, to admit that as well, to say, hey, my parents helped me. I feel like a lot of people on the other side of the token are like, oh yeah, I did it all myself, whatever. You're just being very honest about what it took to get you to this point, and people need to hear that more. Because yes, you put in the work, but there were pieces of the puzzle that helped you be able to.

to continue to put in the work and focus.

Ben Dorman (10:47.786)
100%. And if any, if there's a single artist, it's like, I did everything on my own, they're lying. It's just like, I'm sorry, you're just lying to people. And I don't think that there's enough upfront honesty in the music industry, in my opinion. So that's why I'm so vulnerable. And I'm like, here's my story. Here's what I did. Here's what I do. If you want to be a part of it, cool. If not, cool as well. Simple.

olivia (11:11.177)
Yeah. And by doing that, you attract the right people into your circle.

Ben Dorman (11:18.598)
100% and I can say that like my crew of friends and people within music are definitely all very authentic

olivia (11:26.689)
That's awesome. It's so neat. I mean, it not only translates like face to face when you're talking to people, but what I feel almost like, like I'm proud of myself that a lot of like the artists that, well, all the artists I choose to interview on the show and the artists that I listened to are cool as fuck. I'm like, that translates in your music. Like it was the music that drew me to you, but then I find out that you're also a good person. And that is just, I don't know.

You know what I mean? Like it comes through in the, in the art.

Ben Dorman (11:57.582)
Mm-hmm. 100%. Did you listen to my music like before this? Like prior to? Oh sick.

olivia (12:01.129)
Yeah. So, so my brother actually won, um, one of your remix contests as well. Yeah. Um, his name is proper. I don't remember. I can look what's what song it was. Isn't that crazy?

Ben Dorman (12:08.27)
What? What's going on?

Ben Dorman (12:13.623)
No.

Trapa is so sick. That's your brother? Whaaaaat?

olivia (12:18.597)
Yeah, that's my brother. I know I have that song like on my SoundCloud and everything. Yeah. So he was the one who introduced me to you a while ago. Him and I have always been into dance music, like since we were little, but we've always, you know, shown each other artists and stuff and he, you know, he loves your stuff, obviously he entered the contest and yeah, that's him.

Ben Dorman (12:39.054)
That's so cool. Yeah. Because like my label manager, Josh, she's like, it's so funny. We were talking about proper like two months ago and we're like talking to him about like signing some music. So yes, we're big fans of him. Just so you're

olivia (12:48.929)
Good to know, yeah. Yeah, it's mutual, it's mutual. And he definitely is like, has the same principles of authenticity, being real. And again, I think that that's so important because that helps you find people that you actually wanna work with.

Ben Dorman (13:11.142)
100%. And I think that's the best part. When you get to work with your friends, it's so much more fun.

olivia (13:16.301)
Mm-hmm. It is. On the other side of the token, have you ever, so as like a creative myself, I do like a lot of videos, content, whatever. Do you find that, I mean, I guess it takes a certain level of maturity, but sometimes when I do work with my friends, I have a harder time being direct if I don't like something. Have you ever found that that's the case? Because...

music and art is subjective so like there is no one right answer you know

Ben Dorman (13:49.122)
Here and there, yes, but there's always a way to deliver it that's not gonna be defeating. And there's always a way to deliver the message where it can be constructive and helpful so that the project goes in the direction that's right for the project. You know, like Tony's a perfect example. Tony and I worked together very consistently and him and I are very, very open and honest with each other, but that's also cause like we're like best friends, you know?

olivia (13:57.055)
Mm-hmm.

olivia (14:03.949)
Mm-hmm.

olivia (14:14.721)
Yeah.

Ben Dorman (14:15.314)
and we know how to separate the business aspect of it and the personal. So if I send him something and he's like, yo, this is total shit. It's not going to hurt my feelings. And it probably is total shit because he's not going to lie to me about it. You know, but there definitely is instances, but I have found, I think it was earlier on in my career where that was the case because I was more like, you know, I want to work with these people. I want to grow and this and that. And not saying that was the wrong thing to do.

olivia (14:26.142)
Right. Yeah.

Ben Dorman (14:42.038)
But I bet the projects could have been even better if I would have been totally transparent and honest with them and been like, hey, maybe we take more time here. Maybe we fix this or do this or do that, just so that it's right, you know? And someone who's really good at that actually is that I work with is Martin Horger. He's guided me a lot in that direction because he's very specific and very particular to every single minute detail, right? And it's like, he doesn't rush anything. He'd rather take more time, so it's right.

olivia (14:53.591)
Yeah.

Ben Dorman (15:12.718)
And I found that when you do that, everything just comes out so much better and it's so much more natural and it's longer lasting, you know, which is very, very important in the sense that I feel like music itself, if it's going to be big music and big records, it has to be timeless.

olivia (15:23.99)
Mm-hmm.

olivia (15:33.385)
Yeah, yeah.

some of my favorite tracks are ones that I've heard for the past 10, 15 years. And that's a really good point. And I think that comes with, you have to go through it. You have to make your mistakes and learn. You can't just leapfrog over the learning process, which I think a lot of people these days wanna do because they just wanna like, bam, get that viral moment, make it, start touring, headline festivals, whatever it is. But it's like the difference

when only a couple thousand people know you versus hundreds of thousands. It's like you need to make your mistakes when you're still, you know, a little, you know, you're growing.

Ben Dorman (16:17.422)
But I found that I still make mistakes sometimes. And sometimes I'll do it purposely just to kind of test run things and be like, is this gonna work or is it not? Because yes, I have built this space with my fans. But if I'm trying new things, how do I know they're gonna be receptive? So I gotta test run things sometimes. And that's just part of trial and error. And sometimes you're gonna win, sometimes you're gonna lose. And-

olivia (16:21.101)
Sure.

olivia (16:36.07)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Ben Dorman (16:44.194)
That's fine, I'm down to lose, it's not gonna hurt my feelings, I'm just gonna keep going and try something else.

olivia (16:49.174)
Yeah.

Well, what you said just now is like your reaction, like, and to, if it's a consider to fail, that's like the maturity you gain from going through the experiences. Like, so something that comes to mind, so I used to be like a TV news reporter, like reporting like crime and politics and all this depressing shit. And my first market was like this, I was in Iowa, okay? Like I was in like a rural part of Iowa. So smaller market, you start smaller

to bigger and bigger cities. And I remember there was one story, I accidentally put on the air where I didn't blur out on this Facebook post a bunch of F bombs and stuff. And thankfully it was the Saturday afternoon news, which nobody watches, but I was like spiraling. And I'm like, looking back, I'm like, I'm so glad that happened.

olivia (17:46.442)
I would have known how to like respond and whatever, like, cause you just, it's going to happen. It'll always happen, but it's, it's your response to things. And that just takes time. And so bringing it back to like music and working well with others. Um, it takes a lot of different components to like bring one song to the public. And so you have to learn to work well with others.

Ben Dorman (18:08.706)
100% and something to kind of build off of that too is like, yeah, that may have been what people would consider a failure, but in a lot of ways, it's also a win because you got to learn something from that and it's an experience that you can take forward to be even better next time.

olivia (18:22.397)
Yep. Yeah. I believe that like fully like no losses, only wins and lessons sort of thing.

Ben Dorman (18:28.938)
100%. And I'm it's funny, I'm reading this book right now called emotional intelligence 2.0. And that's teaching me a lot in that realm of things. And it's funny, because the majority, I'm learning that the majority of people that are like, own these massive corporations and these massive companies, they don't necessarily have the highest IQ, they have like the highest level of EQ, which is what they call emotional intelligence. And it's a different space and having like a very, very

olivia (18:33.729)
Hmm.

Ben Dorman (18:58.83)
high IQ. And that's something that's of interest right now for me that I'm trying to find a way to translate into music. And I just started that book last week and it's fascinating.

olivia (19:09.793)
really interesting. I love that you're so I talked about this the other day. I think a lot of people think in order to be better at their craft, they need to like dig deeper into the same thing. But what you're saying is like, I'm taking something about like, personal development or something about the corporate world, and then seeing how that translates into music, like you're pulling inspiration from outside of the niche of music.

Ben Dorman (19:34.69)
Totally, because I mean, if you think about it, right, every, think about like a massive business, right? Let's say, what did I relate this to? I was talking to someone last night about this and I was relating like the NFL to music, right? So if you think about it, okay? Artists in regards to what's hot and the trends, right? Unless you've really built this space where you have a diehard fan base that is just consistently growing and...

is gonna ride with you no matter what, then you don't have to follow trends at all, right? You don't have to move with the times. But if you don't have that space, or don't have it all the way, you're gonna kind of have to shift with the times, right? And the way I related it is because like, I'm a huge Bills fan, so I'm like super in on the NFL, right? And I've, I follow how things go with that too, right? And right now what's happening in the NFL is a lot of it is going towards entertainment.

and offensive minded coaches, right? And I'm finding that if you're not shifting into those offensive minded spaces, right? Some of these teams are failing, right? And then I thought about it in the realm of music, like, okay, if people aren't shifting with the times musically and finding a way to stay authentic to them while also shifting with it, there might be a decline or a plateau as well.

And that's something to kind of think about in regards to going back to where we just started with this is like, you can take pieces of everything in the world into whatever your space is. Like it could be music, it could be art, it could be sports, but all of it connects. Right? So why not try and have pieces over here and bring them into music? Here's a perfect example. So I'm like diehard Nipsey Hussle fan and he's like the entrepreneurs entrepreneur,

And he was trying to figure out something that would be impactful for one of these mix tapes that he did. So he was reading this book. I think it was called From Good to Great or I forget.

olivia (21:43.233)
Good to great to relentless. Is that it?

Ben Dorman (21:46.614)
think so. It might have been a different one. I forget. But within it, there was this place in Philly, this high end restaurant that was opening, right? And they were trying to make an impact and be different. So what they did was is they're like, Yo, we're gonna put a Philly cheesesteak on the menu. They cost $100. Right? And the managers were like, this is crazy. It's not gonna work. And they're like, just trust me, do it. It's gonna have a wow factor.

olivia (21:48.545)
Okay.

Ben Dorman (22:13.054)
immediately everyone was like, $100 cheesesteak, we got to try this. And it was a hit. Right? So what he did was he took that concept and was like, yo, I'm going to take this into my album. And I'm going to do a meet and greet and you're going to pay $100 and you're going to get an album. You're going to get a t shirt, you're going to get a meet and greet. And it was the first person to ever do this. And he sold like, I think it was like 10,000 of them. Yo, Jay Z was so enthralled by what he was doing. He bought a thousand.

olivia (22:43.745)
Wow.

Ben Dorman (22:44.222)
And it made this massive impact, you know? So that's like a perfect example of how you can take things that a restaurant did, right, that wouldn't relate to music and bring it into that space.

olivia (22:49.896)
Yeah.

olivia (22:53.661)
That's so, that's so cool.

Um, there's another really great, uh, like there's a book on this concept that you're talking about, but it's more so like directly related to career. It's called smart cuts and it tells different stories. So it's basically all about like how you don't have to climb the ladder in your industry. You can like ladder hack. And so like similarly, um, it told a story about how this heart surgeon team at this prestigious hospital went and studied with formula one pit crews for a month.

to learn how fast and intricate they were and then took those principles to heart surgery. And like, there's all these crazy stats about like how they've improved their processes and success rates and whatever. And it's kind of like the same thing.

Ben Dorman (23:40.222)
so cool. The book is called Contagious, like why things catch on. That's what it's called.

olivia (23:43.885)
contagious. I'm going to write that down because I love stuff like that. So you're no, I was going to say you're a big reader.

Ben Dorman (23:48.21)
It's so good. Like he has. Go ahead.

I love to read. I love to read, yeah.

olivia (23:54.945)
That's awesome. Do you like physically read books or do you listen?

Ben Dorman (23:59.31)
I physically read books. I just, I did listen to one recently. I forget what it was called. Matthew McConaughey's book was incredible. Yeah, he did, which made it even better.

olivia (24:06.609)
Really? Did he narrate it? Yeah. It's, I think they're equally valuable. Like I didn't ask that to be like, Oh, do you, you know, like what, cause I do both because sometimes I'm like cleaning or folding laundry and I, you know what I mean? It's much easier to listen. So I'm a big audible person too.

Ben Dorman (24:26.762)
Yeah, that was, it's called Greenlight is what it's called. My therapist actually was like, yeah, you should read this. You and him have a lot of similarities. And I was like, there's no way me and this like famous, whatever guy have anything in common. Then I read it and was like, yo, him and I like the exact same person.

olivia (24:30.189)
green light.

olivia (24:45.909)
Really? Well, what's your current, what's on your bio? You said you're the EDM something. Oh yeah. EDM pays the plume. So you have to change it now to Matthew McConaughey. Yeah. Matthew McConaughey.

Ben Dorman (24:52.582)
Oh, EDM, paste, or pluma?

Ben Dorman (24:58.026)
Yeah

Oh my God, that'd be funny. Yeah, that thing just started like, I didn't even know who Peso Pluma was. And then like, fans started tweeting at me like, yo, you guys look the same. And I'm just like, I just ignored it for a while. Then it kept happening. And so long hair, and like my hair's pulled back right now. So like, you can't tell, but like.

olivia (25:13.058)
Is it the long hair? How long have you had the long hair?

Ben Dorman (25:21.494)
I started growing it the week before Lala 2022. So we're at like a year and a half in. Yeah, and it's like down to here.

olivia (25:27.981)
Oh shit, your hair grows fast. That's crazy. Do you just, were you just like, I just want to do this? Or was there a reason?

Ben Dorman (25:36.702)
Yeah, and I just was like, I'm gonna switch it up. I'm gonna do something different. I've had long hair before, like 2012, 2013, I had hair like down to here. So we're kind of going for that length again, and then I'm gonna keep it for a while.

olivia (25:44.902)
Okay.

olivia (25:48.839)
They allowed that at Jersey Mike's.

Ben Dorman (25:51.586)
Jersey mics didn't really have a lot of say in what I did, or I just would not listen. Yo, my manager there was younger than me, which was crazy. It was wild, Jersey.

olivia (26:03.617)
that you add your, Oh, at Jersey Mike's was. Yeah, that gets uncomfortable. I'm hitting the age now I'm 31. I don't know, how old are you?

Ben Dorman (26:05.999)
Oh, Jersey Mike's, yeah, yeah.

Ben Dorman (26:13.07)
33.

olivia (26:13.877)
Okay. It's like same, same shit. And I'm hitting the age now where I start looking at athletes or certain celebrities that are like popping off right now. I'm like, cool. You're 24. Like that makes me feel, you know, I'm very like everything happens in due time, but sometimes it is a little weird to see this person, you know, and they're like 22 years old and it's like, holy shit.

Ben Dorman (26:35.07)
Yeah, it's wild, but I mean, it's different for everyone. Everyone's time comes at a different time.

olivia (26:39.337)
It's very true. I mean, I feel like my, I don't know if you feel this way, but I'm almost 32. Um, the second I turned 30, my life changed for the better somehow. Like this is the best decade ever. You couldn't pay me to go back to my twenties.

Ben Dorman (26:56.522)
Yep, 100%. And one thing I tell people, when I turned 30, I felt like I got respect from like the older generation. Yeah. It's like you guys don't think I'm a kid.

olivia (27:02.721)
Finally. Yeah, like, yeah, it's like literally even at 29, they still don't respect you, but as soon as you hit your 30s, like something changes and people just start listening to you. And it's like, I remember being in my young 20s, like frustrated, you know, in work, like not getting that respect, but I mean, I don't wanna say that I, I mean, I definitely look at people younger than me in the workplace. I'm like, oh, you know, you have a lot to learn, but.

Not in like a condescending way. It's just, it's true. Like you kind of have to, you know, your twenties are very young in the grand scheme of things.

Ben Dorman (27:39.298)
They are and you have a lot of life to live and like nowadays people are living longer, you know, so like everything's happening later. People are having kids later. People are getting married later. Like my grandma's like, yo, when you're going to get married, I'm like, yo, grandma, just like, let me live.

olivia (27:43.564)
Mm-hmm.

olivia (27:48.651)
Yep.

olivia (27:54.065)
Yeah. Well, cause it's not a thing. Like you're, you're in the outlier if you're married in your thirties. So, or have kids like that's, that's crazy.

Ben Dorman (28:03.158)
It's just different. Like I think being in the music industry and definitely someone who tours consistently, like that's a tougher road for me, you know, because like I want to have a family and have children and all that. So like something I got to think about, but like now's not the time.

olivia (28:19.069)
Right. It's, um, you have to find the balance that works and people, you got to find the right people in your life that are going to understand. Like you can't, you know, I feel like it's a tough, um, especially dance music is so tough because it does heavily rely on touring maybe more so than some of the other genres. Like you don't see, you know, you're, you could be somewhere every single weekend of the year and that's not typical for like, I don't know, country.

Ben Dorman (28:23.393)
Mm-hmm.

olivia (28:49.457)
Maybe it is. I actually don't know, but.

Ben Dorman (28:51.802)
I mean country and like hip hop and that kind of stuff they'll tour for like three straight months non-stop And then they're in the studio album working on this. It's different like dude. I had two weekends off since May It's yeah, I was home for five total days in September like it Yeah, I lived in LA for like a very short period in like

olivia (29:05.549)
It's brutal.

olivia (29:10.933)
Are you and are you still in Arizona?

Ben Dorman (29:19.21)
And I was just like, this place sucks. Like I'm out, like I gotta go. And I just, I haven't looked back. So I'll, my family's here. I'm in Arizona for good. Like this is home to me.

olivia (29:28.593)
Yeah. And it's not, cause you aren't home very often. So when you do get to be home, it's nice that you can see your family and it's familiar. Yeah.

Ben Dorman (29:36.094)
Mm-hmm. 100%. Like, I, it's funny, my parents live near the airport. So I go park. It's just like an excuse to see them. Like, I go park my car there. My dad takes me to the airport and then on Sunday, he'll pick me up.

olivia (29:48.481)
That's awesome. I love that it sounds like they're really supportive.

Ben Dorman (29:52.018)
extremely like that. They've come to a lot of shows like my mom got to meet Shaq. My they came to Lala. They came to EDC. Like they've been to a lot of stuff.

olivia (30:00.213)
That's so cool. That's really, really cool because I know for sometimes for older generations, they don't necessarily get it or get like just like the festivals and that whole like atmosphere. So that's pretty cool.

Ben Dorman (30:14.666)
Yeah, they're very open-minded. And my dad was also in music when I was first born, so he gets it.

olivia (30:20.721)
Okay. That's awesome. Was he like, did he play instruments or sing?

Ben Dorman (30:26.106)
He was a manager. He does sing, he does play drums, he plays guitar, so like he has a whole music room like at the house, which is cool, like his little man cave. But he was a manager. And it's funny because when he retired, I think he retired five years ago, maybe four, like a year after he's like, I'm going to start managing the band I was managing again, but just locally. And he was like booking him all these local gigs and he was all excited about it. He did that for a couple years.

olivia (30:51.457)
That's really cool. That's nice to have that in the family. And I read too, or maybe heard on an interview that you started off like promoting.

Ben Dorman (31:01.598)
Yep, it's funny, like, I was a promoter literally just handing out flyers and all that and it's funny you bring that up because a few weeks ago, we did a pop up in Phoenix at First Friday, and we got like 1000 flyers printed and I was like back to the roots of where it started handing out flyers and all that is so much fun.

olivia (31:21.793)
That's crazy. I've been thinking about that a lot lately because there are like in Chicago, you know, there's, there's still promoters, but I feel like with social media now and like basically the responsibility that's been placed on a lot of artists to do a lot of the promoting. I don't see there's no, like, um, the whole promoter thing is not like it used to be.

Ben Dorman (31:45.078)
different. I think it I mean, I don't know why that ended. Well, a lot of it is because it's digital. Like, dude, back then, I'd play local shows, and I'd sell like 50 to 75 tickets, like hand to hand, you know, like, that's unheard of these days, like, that just doesn't happen anymore. And I think because it's all gone digital. And I don't know, I miss the good old days of having like an actual ticket in your hand, and like collecting it and be like, I went to these shows and this like, but people don't care about that kind of stuff anymore.

olivia (31:51.328)
Yeah.

olivia (31:55.997)
Mm-hmm. Right.

olivia (32:11.713)
Yeah.

olivia (32:15.153)
I think it's going to come back. Everything that's old becomes new again. And like people care about like vintage and you know, like I have, like I always say that I have one shoe box full of stuff that if my house caught on fire, I'd take my dogs in that shoe box. And that does have like tickets to like different things and you know, you know what I mean? So I don't know, maybe, maybe we can inspire someone to bring it back. I think, I think that would be fun.

Ben Dorman (32:41.45)
be super fun. That's funny you say that because I have the same thing. It's like this one drawer of stuff. Like if my house burned down, I'm taking this drawer of stuff and I'm out and my computer.

olivia (32:48.457)
Yep. Yeah, right. Yeah. 100%. That's got all the valuables on it, the music. So we've covered a lot of ground, but I always like to ask before, you know, we wrap up, I like to ask artists like.

It's tough right now getting, getting your foot in the door. There's a lot of competition. Um, and there's a lot of like competing messages on, you know, whether you should participate in trends or how you should go about, you know, um, building your career, but is there anything like that you can say to someone that maybe is feeling discouraged because of the environment and dance music right now? What, what should they be doing?

Ben Dorman (33:29.894)
Um, currently I think economically it makes it more difficult too. Um, cause of where we're at currently as an economy and we're seeing that on the touring side as well. Um, so don't be, don't feel down because you're not the only one going through it. Cause like, we're definitely feeling it touring as well. Ticket sales aren't like the greatest right now. Um, but honestly, from a simple standpoint, I think you just need to do is going to make you happy in the long run and.

If that's continuing to push into the space of music, do it and do it because you love it, not because you want to be a touring artist or because you want to be famous or any of those things or have all this money. Do it because you love it. You know, that's why I got onto this. I was a raver. I was like, this is incredible. Like, I want to be on the stage because that just looks fun. You know, I didn't think about like the crowd or the things that come with it or any of that. It's just like, In the end, you need to do what is going to make you happy. Otherwise,

Your life is going to suck, straight up. If you're not happy with what you're doing, then how do you expect everything else in your life to be good? Because it really, really just starts with you. And I think that that's something that people forget. If I wasn't here, this project wouldn't exist. So if you're not doing the things to make yourself happy, how do you anticipate and expect the project itself to blossom? Because now it's coming from a space of...

darkness and unhappiness. So how do you expect to make anyone happy if you're coming from that space?

olivia (35:03.893)
Right? It's a big thing. You got to, you got to heal your mindset and, and do what you love and, you know, not chase the BS. So thank you for that. And thank you for doing this. This has been really cool to talk to you. And I'm just looking forward to seeing everything that you got planned in the future.

Ben Dorman (35:14.05)
course. 100%