Nurturing Your Creativity Through Intentional Mental Health Practices | Elevated Frequencies #28

Olivia (00:12.118) Okay. So, uh, welcome to elevated frequencies, new format. I am back with flash mob. If you guys remember, I had him on a couple of weeks ago. Was that maybe two months ago? I believe.

Flashmob (00:26.514) Eh, or somewhere in between.

Olivia (00:28.61) It's been a little bit, but what I love is that you and I decided to stay in touch after we had that conversation because we realized we had a lot in common. We have great conversations, very productive. And so you actually presented the idea to me like, Hey, would you want to do this again? But focus more so on mental health topics because I have a lot of thoughts that I want to get out there. And I feel like now is kind of the appropriate time to talk about it.

That's what we're doing and we're going to do this once a month. And I'm super excited about it.

Flashmob (01:04.382) Same here. I think it's the perfect time to do something like this. I mean, a lot of artists are coming out of the shell talking about, you know, a lot of issues that come with the touring life, etc. So it's time to, especially, I don't know, I think that after Covid, a lot of us have the imperative to be well and heal and sort of also help other people.

know, heal as well. And maybe even talk about all these things to heal, which is the main reason why I reached out because it was the conversation we had was very important to me because it helped me realize things and talking about it, it's like therapy more or less. So you're my therapist.

Olivia (01:38.745) Yeah.

Olivia (01:51.798) Oh, great. Great. No pressure. No, it's very true. You don't realize when things are just stuck in your head, they can get jumbled around. It's hard to make sense of. So it's so helpful to talk things out, write things out. And what's really cool about your perspective is you've been in the industry a long time, but you've also simultaneously grown in your personal development journey. And so you have a lot to offer to artists who are.

Flashmob (02:13.227) Indeed.

Olivia (02:18.426) going through it right now, or maybe who are doing fine, but they need the extra support because they say the best time to get therapy is when you think you don't need it. Because then you're not so focused like on figuring out and massaging out one issue, and you can actually look ahead and implement, new practices into your life that make it better overall. So I think this is gonna be really beneficial, really interesting perspective, especially it's more of a global perspective. I'm here in Chicago and you're in Italy. So it's really cool that we can.

find a time that works for us to do this too.

Flashmob (02:51.474) Indeed, indeed. I was thinking about how sometimes, although you've had an incredible journey and an incredible experience in a certain period of your life, you can, at the end of this, that period, you can sort of look back and, and even if it's been great, you can say, okay, but I could have sort of lived it better in a way, obviously, because due to that experience, you've matured a number of, you know.

Olivia (03:21.059) Right.

Flashmob (03:21.31) So yeah, so that's a lot to do with... I mean, thinking about the past is a way to look at your future in a more constructive way for me. Although I'm always concentrated in the future, I'm always sort of thinking of how in the past I could have, you know. And when you're in a loop touring and everything seems so incredible...

Olivia (03:45.132) Yeah.

Flashmob (03:50.738) you may be missing out on substantial things of your life that you find out later. So that's what.

Olivia (03:56.838) That's.

That's a really good point. It's hard to take time to reflect, especially when things are on the up and up and everything's going great and moving fast. And, you know, this show's all about mindfulness and bringing mindfulness into a very chaotic lifestyle, whether you're an artist or a fan, or you work in the industry as a agent or promoter or whatever. So this is super valuable. So what we decided to do was kind of break each episode up

health topic. And today we decided to talk about mental health as it relates to the creative process. Because, you know, I've been thinking a lot, there's a, there's a lot of news coming out about, you know, artists like, like a pop star, for example, Britney Spears, okay, we're finding out how tortured she was throughout her entire career and how she was able to put out this incredible body of music. And it really begs the question, you know,

Your mental health and taking care of it. How does that affect like is it is it? Can you create better art when you're creating from a place of pain or is the opposite true? And I just want to explore that and hash that out with you Because I know you probably have a lot of thoughts as an artist yourself who's been through a lot

Flashmob (05:10.926) Hmm.

Flashmob (05:17.266) Indeed. I mean, it's pretty much the continuation of what we were saying before, because in a way, you run across an experience, like for example, mine is, I'm at the 11th year of Flash Mob this year, and you run right through it and it's VOOM! That was, you know...

And then you look back and you think, okay, yeah, I did do an awful lot of music through pain and through discomfort and through...

uh feelings that are not exactly the you know the light that you should have in the studio when you're completely relaxed and you can sort of you know when the kind of mindset that you have when you do things properly which is something that I am benefiting from now and so you look back and in a way you ask yourself do you know did some of the uh greater

Olivia (06:13.55) Mm-hmm.

Flashmob (06:28.346) songs that one did, do they come from one side or could they have been better if they had been done with a different creative mindset? Because now these days not only me but an awful lot of artists are working on their health, on their mental health, on their lifestyle, on sort of really taking in account how

how you live today will affect the next 10 years. And this sort of isn't a problem until you do 10 years and you realize how those 10 years affect you. So till you don't get to that point, you don't really think about it because you think you're immortal. I mean, you're traveling, you're doing, you're having the best time of your life and you're not realizing that maybe you're not building a family and that, you know, you get to...

Olivia (07:00.378) Mm-hmm.

Flashmob (07:23.03) the other side when you're 40 and you don't have a family. For example, if a family is what you want, because I know a lot of artists that are pretty happy without one. I mean, but it's not just that. It's a number of benefits that you get from also how you live with yourself, what you've, you know, the mental condition you arrive at the end of a certain part of a journey.

Olivia (07:26.594) Right.

Olivia (07:32.058) Right.

Flashmob (07:49.982) Now I talk at the end because there's been COVID. So COVID has been a big reset for everyone. And so everyone has sort of had the time to sit down and say, okay, so what have I done up to now? And for some it's been a moment to let go, for some it's been a moment to reset, for some it's been a new beginning. And so these days I feel that being creative reflects

Olivia (07:55.974) Mm-hmm.

Flashmob (08:22.283) the creative moment reflects where I am in life at that given time.

Olivia (08:29.822) So could you point to, and you don't have to say maybe what track it was, but can you think of a track that you created when you were in a moment of duress or you were going through a hard time in your life? And can you think about, maybe would you have done something differently had you not had those mental blockages?

Flashmob (08:50.542) Yes. But again, it's a number of things. It's a number of things. It's not just the general moment that you're living in your life. For example, I did the Lone Brazilian for Hot Creation in end of 2016, and then it was released in 2017. And that was a moment with very, very difficult moment of my life because I was changing direction musically. I had some personal...

problems. My mother was sick and I sort of fell out of love with music for a couple of years because I was too occupied by it. And so that track was done with a certain detachment and with the... I was very clear with what I had to do.

Flashmob (09:46.926) stepping back in a way from the usual energy that I try to put into tracks to make it work for a certain kind of audience, which wasn't my usual audience. So if I hadn't have been so detached, I would have done it in a different way. So sometimes pain transforms into a love song or with a song that has a lot of, you know, a lot of emotions in it. Sometimes it, it

it, you're in a state of mind where you want to detach from it because you just really couldn't bother. And then maybe some really good tracks come out because they, you were, you were sort of not involved and you were like a third person doing your own track. Which is a major problem for producers because you're always doubting what you're doing. You're always struggling to finish a track. You're always.

and I'm gonna do it for this label and then you're not focused and then it's for that label and then you try and re-bring it back and then is it me? Is it not me? How much did I compromise? And blah blah. So these days I'm really trying to just do what I love, which is what ideally one should do. And hopefully the industry has transformed itself in a way

where people are more open to simply understand that people that have done like 200 tracks like me for example want to experiment something different and want to be part of the evolution of electronic music rather than chasing you know the usual mechanism of oh I need to release this because my bookings will be affecting because this and this and that so my the thing that I

Olivia (11:29.103) Right.

Flashmob (11:40.034) that I sometimes, not always, but sometimes have the courage to just, you know, just do something that is not even sonically placeable in a, like I've, I've done a track that is, it's like everyone that's listened to it say, Oh, wow. This is like, you know, but who do you sign it to? And so, and, and I'm like thinking, okay, I'm going to try this, this. And then if it doesn't work, then I'm, I'm going to start my own label and just

Olivia (11:59.331) Yeah.

Flashmob (12:10.03) it out and put everything I have in it and but that's wrong because the second thing I thought should be the first thing that I should do.

Olivia (12:19.886) But what it sounds like, correct me if I'm wrong, is, and I wanna kinda get into the different ways one can begin a healing journey, is you've come to this place in your life where you have this creative freedom and things are flowing more. Now you deal with a new issue of, okay, where do I place this, as you said, but you've explained that.

Flashmob (12:41.698) Well, that's a dependency, isn't it? Well, till you, the dog race that we all artists talk about is that you make music and then you wait for someone else to approve it because as artists, we need someone else's approval for something to shine in our heads. When we already know that it's something that can shine, we already know that it's great because someone that's done...

many tracks already knows when a track is good or not. So we should simply just put everything we have in something that we believe. That's the interesting story. That's when you're free. And instead, I'm openly saying that many times I'm sort of, you know, yeah, I want to do that, but I'm tempted by getting like a big label's approval.

Obviously it is sometimes it can also be more convenient on a business side. So that's also why, but the dependency from the labels and the dependency from approval and the debate that is, is something that interferes a lot with the creative process, I think.

Olivia (13:55.302) That's why being a creative entrepreneur, which is a catchall term for, artist, videographer, graphic designer, can be, there can be such cognitive dissonance because the place where you wanna create from might not be the same place that can make you money and support, you know.

I'm not talking about like a flashy lifestyle, I'm just talking about living in general. And so I think that's like one of the major causes of mental health issues in the industry because you have, on one hand, you wanna stay true to yourself, but on the other, you have to pay the bills. So how do you balance that? And I think it's important to discuss the fact that healing isn't like...

Flashmob (14:19.234) Okay.

Olivia (14:41.082) There's no end destination. It is a continuous journey. You can't avoid pain and suffering in your life on a macro scale and a micro scale. Things happen. You get wrenches thrown in your day, minor inconveniences all the way up to things that affect family members, pets, your love life, taxes, whatever it is. And you have to learn how, yeah, taxes.

Flashmob (15:03.502) Out of this.

Olivia (15:06.878) And you have to learn how to deal with that and be able to persevere. And so that's why I wanna talk about some of the different techniques and mechanisms that people can implement into their life. And one thing that I always say on this show and like when I, you know, on TikTok and everything is that it doesn't need to be complicated to be effective. Like you don't need this 15 step routine to...

go on a healing journey or optimize your life or whatever. It's simple things that you can do. And for me, like I'll just list them really quick. You and I have talked about this. Journaling is a big one. Getting my thoughts on paper. Starting my morning off by not looking at my phone for an hour, to have control over my day, to say I'm not gonna allow all these messages, good and bad, to get into my head first thing in the morning when my brain is the most vulnerable.

meditation. So can you get into a little bit of your history about when you knew it was time to start implementing some of these lifestyle changes and what you've done?

Flashmob (16:16.214) Well, I've had several breakdowns, which during my career, two. One was in 2017 and another one was in 2018 when I was convinced that I'd fixed the one that I had in 2017, but I was nowhere near that. And since then I've been aware.

of how dangerous it can be to take yourself to a point where I have no sleep and too much traveling and too much pushing and not enough me in the equation. So how much am I willing to put myself aside for my career?

and how much am I willing to ask from my loved ones for me to be able to pursue that career?

And since then I've been trying to understand what I really want. And why, especially why I live the way I do and why I do what I do. So I've sort of found out about myself that I've, like many artists, we all have a sort of attentive disorder.

many artists have a way of dealing compulsively with a number of issues that come with touring, for example. And they all, as you said, you write on paper, you have your own mechanisms. At the end of the day, we all sort of are trying to find ways to train our body and our mind to stay

Flashmob (18:13.474) focused and independent and happy when we are bombarded by a million things. Many of them are not even necessary if you think about it. And that's where when you start seeing that a lot of the things that you do are not as important. That's when you start using the priority sort of mechanism to sort of, okay, I can only do five things today.

and

And I'm going to do five, I'm not going to do 15. And I'm going to do one every hour and a half with the break in the middle. For example, even writing songs after so many years, I used to say, I used to be one of those who'd say, oh yeah, I can, you know, I'll write a song in an hour. Like the rough idea, which is, it's possible. It's possible, but I'm starting to force myself to work on one sound a day.

For example, this is a new recipe that I've introduced in my... So within a week, if I have a good idea to work on, at the beginning of the week, I'm gonna work on once. I already have it in my head, so it's pointless putting it down in an hour, and I'm gonna use sounds that are not the correct ones, and I'm gonna eventually have to change them, and I'm gonna fall into that continuous, and you have to do things three times, which is what most artists do.

what most people do because it's very difficult to do things right the first time. For anyone, I mean. So you might as well work on every aspect slowly and properly.

Flashmob (19:58.334) and just make every sound count, because at the end of the day, what builds a great track is if every sound is perfectly matched up with all the others, you know? And it's the same thing in life, so if you have a lot of mechanisms that help you in the different parts of your problematic being, that help you fix those parts, then it will all come together.

Because at the end of the day, if you don't eat well, you're not gonna sleep well. If you don't sleep well, you're not gonna be creative. You're not gonna feel well. And then it goes in circles and then it's gonna affect slowly all the other parts of your life that are outside of music, for example, in my world. So I was at a point where I couldn't allow music to get any bigger in my life. And so...

Olivia (20:29.914) Hmm.

Flashmob (20:54.378) Yeah, I started the, you know, the cold therapy that we spoke about last time and a number of other things that I tried to do to really train my body and my mind to be independent and focused and not be attacked by this feeling of having to do, of having to perform, of having to be successful, having to release and have, have. And at the end of the day, you're always sort of.

chasing something that doesn't really exist because you can... I mean I've been working so many years with just because of a couple of tracks at the end of the day if you slim it down Yeah, I've done 200 because that's what we do. We release, we release, but if you have one huge track that counts more than you know, than a hundred. So one good habit, five good habits are, you know...

Olivia (21:40.344) Right.

Olivia (21:47.874) Right. I think, I think that people don't necessarily understand how much bullshit is clogging our brain these days. Brain fog is such a massive issue and it's kind of like a buzzword. Now there's a lot of supplements out there to that claim to help like fix it or whatever. COVID caused a lot of it, but when you have all of those other components like doom scrolling,

or feeling the pressure, you know, have to, have to, have to, have to do this, have to do that.

the brain fog that it creates is so hard to clear when you sit down to try to create something. I could not effectively create the concept for this podcast, for example, until I was able to clear the brush off of, give my brain a good sweep and really focus because it was, I had all these ideas, nothing was really like.

coming together cohesively and I had to zone in, you know, on who I wanted to serve, who I wanted to help and how this was going to be different. And really like the not looking at my phone thing in the morning was such a simple thing. And I feel like I harp on it, but it changed everything because with everything going on in the world right now.

all the fears about, you know, current events and the, and in America, I'm sure it's similar where you are, but the economy, inflation, that is not something you should be consuming first thing in the morning or at all.

Flashmob (23:32.761) Especially if they feed you that so that you depend on it because that's the mechanism.

Olivia (23:37.282) Right. And, and I, I took, because I've been, I was feeling crappy earlier this year. Um, just cause we bought a new house, right? And when you buy a house, it's like, it's stressful. And I got my cortisol levels tested and they're extremely high. Like they're like spike in all day. Okay. And, and

I've had to do even more to now kind of control that I've already, you know, I was already at a good baseline path, but now, now I have to do more. I think so many people have high cortisol and they don't even realize it because they're just being like fed crap all day and the content they consume, what they eat, not getting enough sleep, staying out late, which is obviously part of the job, but it really affects you and so you can't.

Flashmob (24:17.482) Yes, yes, yes.

Olivia (24:27.354) When you sit down to create something and you have all of that, like how, how can you, how can you speak from your heart and like, like put your art out into the world when it's, when you have all that going on.

Flashmob (24:41.594) Yes, indeed. That's why I don't watch the news as much as I used to, but also because I am aware of the fact there's a documentary on Netflix that explains exactly how the algorithms of all the media work.

Olivia (24:47.492) Yep.

Flashmob (24:58.326) in a very customized way for every person. So that if you, once you go in once and you express your preferences, they're gonna chase you forever and they're gonna keep you there as long as you can. And it's just the same mechanism as, I mean, how can I explain this? In the seventies, in the eighties, in the nineties, nobody would put, you know, very few people were regularly.

Olivia (25:02.036) Mm-hmm.

Olivia (25:06.694) Mm-hmm. Right.

Flashmob (25:26.046) religiously putting their seat belts on and it was normal. I mean you were in the back of these cars they didn't even have the head and you could you could I mean something that these days is absurd it's ridiculous right okay but it was normal back then because it was new and it was you know cars had only been around since 1950s it took time to get to the point where

Olivia (25:34.81) headrest.

Olivia (25:41.002) Yeah.

Flashmob (25:52.926) They acknowledge that even in the back seats, it's important to put your seatbelt on and blah blah. So it's the same thing with media. It's a completely new sort of thing in our lives to this magnitude, let's say, to this point that we've all reached. And either you sort of...

yet start acknowledging that it's a major undisciplined problem. It's not, there's no code yet. They've not sort of, you know, everyone, they talk about it. And in fact, for me, not picking up the phone in the morning means that I'm deciding when to pick the phone up. It's not the fact that I'm bombarded by bad news. It's the fact that I'm deciding when to pick the phone up.

Olivia (26:44.034) Mm-hmm.

Flashmob (26:44.374) because the body takes control as when you smoke. It's the mind is switching off, the body is smoking because it doesn't want the mind to think. And so it's a way to switch off, to relax, sort of thing. But it's the same thing with smoke. Is that what?

Olivia (26:49.935) Yeah.

Olivia (26:59.522) It's the same thing with drinking, like drink drinking at the club. You first thing you do, you grab a drink. That's why I talk about wait an hour, wait an hour before you have a drink. Then you can decide, because your body is like on autopilot with all of these things.

Flashmob (27:15.026) Yeah, but it's as if you think of, okay, oh, I'm going to go, you're going out with friends and you're going to have a beer. But if you think of it, having a beer, having a glass of water or having whatever, it's more or less the same thing. You know, it's just actually one is healthy, the other isn't. You're having a beer because you're not supposed to. You're giving something to yourself that you are...

It's like shopping, you're buying something for you, you're doing something for you. Pres, you know, it's, you're brought to think that you're doing something for yourself. But the real, how do you say? I feel so well when I'm in a group of people that are drinking and I don't drink because I'm choosing not to drink.

This doesn't mean that I think anything of the other people drinking or that I don't like to because I like to have a glass of wine with my wife and blah blah. And I've had my share of drinking and blah blah. But I want to decide. I want to be able to decide. I want to be able to decide if I'm going to make a track independently or if I want to. I want to be a sniper.

to be a sniper you have to decide when to shoot, where to shoot and the thing of picking up your phone, having to do, having to, even this, the, I have to put, I mean, why would you want to post a photograph of everything that you do? Think about it. It's because you've confused your identity with the identity that is expected by you from you don't even know who.

Olivia (29:04.165) Well...

Flashmob (29:05.245) It's all in our heads.

Olivia (29:06.922) Yeah. And what you're talking about here is discipline and discipline is something that doesn't seem conducive to creativity. But if you can have the discipline not to have a drink, to not pick up your phone, to make a better choice for yourself, it is going to benefit you in the long run. Creativity requires discipline.

Flashmob (29:30.348) but also for me it's...

Flashmob (29:35.626) We've all got lost and by making, I mean, I was told by a friend, why don't you try and do this just once? So I went to my garden and I lit up a fire and I just stayed there. And it was, and during COVID and this was a turning point for me because something so simple and something that is so unusual, because obviously every time that you change your habits and that you do something that is unusual, you're out of your...

say comfort zone or you're out of your routine and that triggers something that wakes you up and it's as if you've always been on a long journey and you go back to the beginning as you know to the simple things and that to the important things and even if it's if it's like you know it's

don't listen to him he's boring and you know we want to be cool and we want to do this and we want to do but everyone enjoys simple things at the end of the day it's just we are we are all sometimes pushed to the limit and that limit is captured by all these bad influences and it becomes a bigger limit and higher limit and then you lose sort of direction on who you are and

the simple things and VUM you're just a puppet.

Olivia (30:59.814) That's true. So, so what can people, what can people listening do today to start, to start improving?

Flashmob (31:09.962) No, I... I'm trying myself to... I'm not obviously like anyone. I'm just trying. I'm...

Flashmob (31:23.506) Anything that is uncomfortable for me is refreshing. I don't know why, but probably anything that, anything that is uncomfortable represents probably fears, represents not wanting to put yourself out there because you're afraid of not being able, or because you're afraid of judgment, or because you're, so anything that is uncomfortable.

For me is, and this is why I do the cold therapy, because that's the most uncomfortable thing you can do. I mean, first thing that you do when you wake up in the morning, if you have a cold shower, you're putting yourself into a, you know, into a dead nervous system impulse. And you have to stay there willingly and just accept it.

Olivia (32:11.098) Yeah.

Flashmob (32:11.954) and that's the way we should accept who we are, our way of doing things, accept the idea that our way of interpreting things, even art in a creative process, is valuable. Because you could also see it in another way. I could have a great record, want to sign it to a big label, oh I want the big label, and they'll say, oh yeah, can you change the drums on this?

and then that big record might become something less than it was and I, instead of being a pioneer of a new sound, I went back to being what someone else wanted. You could see it that way. I mean, if you think of some of the greatest artists,

Flashmob (33:09.034) Sirus the, well, the Eric Prajic. These guys are making music that only they make in a way, or only they used to make at the beginning before being emulated by. But they have the courage to do it. And that is so, and it's so refreshing, and even looking at what they do, they do their thing. And that's the most healthy thing you can do.

Olivia (33:11.855) Yeah.

Olivia (33:17.741) Mm-hmm.

Olivia (33:27.279) Yeah.

Olivia (33:37.282) So I really, I want to highlight what you said about doing something uncomfortable, because I think that is actionable advice that anybody could make that decision tomorrow, whether it is a cold shower or for me, you were talking about that and it reminded me of this workout class that I now do. And the first time I did it, like I had zero core strength. Okay. Barely do five sit ups.

200 of these classes and I cannot believe my core strength is insane and going to that class and putting myself in this very uncomfortable position it's very difficult it's called solid core if anyone who listens has ever taken it

has propelled my business forward actually, because I decided I was gonna go to this class three times a week and make this very hard choice and put myself in massive discomfort, someone who couldn't do five sit-ups. And the discipline in that area has allowed me, has given me confidence, because when you can conquer a cold shower, when you can conquer a difficult workout class or whatever it is, if you have social anxiety, putting yourself in a...

uncomfortable position going to a networking event alone, maybe whatever it is, that helps you build confidence. And then you can get to that level of, I'm gonna create something so unique that no one's ever heard before and I fully believe in it. And so when I present this product to the world, they're gonna believe in it too because I'm backing my own art. So I think that whatever, whoever's listening, pick something that is.

Flashmob (35:14.271) Exactly.

Olivia (35:20.738) slightly out of your comfort zone. We're not saying, you know, go from zero to a hundred in one day. But if you can start building those uncomfortable habits to where they become comfortable, and then you level up to the next one, that's going to, it's going to change your life.

Flashmob (35:32.59) Exactly. That's exactly it. Being consistent and if you think that something is difficult 10, but you do it every day and every day you get closer and closer, you get stronger in that area, it's not going to be difficult 10 anymore. It's going to be difficult 9, 8, and then onto the next layer. And you're growing that way. So...

as hard as it is to admit that you need to go through, you need to put yourself through that to get to the next layer. Because that's the main problem, majority of us, and me included for many periods, I would just refuse, oh, that's not a problem for me. So I'm just not gonna dive into it. I'm not gonna, this is why I'm uncomfortable when I'm in the cold. I don't feel cold.

I am attacked by all these thoughts that are my preoccupations or my fears or my, you know, things that I'm fighting against. And that's the being constant every day, even if you don't, even if you don't feel like it, you're going to do it anyway. That's just being there is 50%. You've already won for me in my small experience. That's the key point is just keep doing it.

Olivia (36:45.284) Right.

Olivia (36:57.871) Yeah.

Flashmob (37:02.302) And then one day it's gonna, it's gonna switch. And that's when you're gonna say, oh, okay, wow. I really am able to do this.

Olivia (37:02.563) Right.

Olivia (37:10.722) Yeah. And also knowing when it's time to up the ante is a big one. Like using my workout class as a good example, there's different levels that the coaches call out if you've taken zero to 25 classes put on this spring load, so on and so forth. And now I'm like almost at 200 classes. And there's some days where I catch myself. Like you're not going as like, you could amplify this. You could up the ante and I, and I don't do it.

And that actually creates like, I've disappointed in myself. And so knowing, like once you've accomplished one hard thing, it's kind of like, okay, well, I did this. Now I can give myself a break. And of course it's good to rest. We all need periods of rest. But knowing when it's time to push the envelope a little further is huge because you don't wanna get stuck. Like it can happen at any stage. It's not just this thing where once you've done it once, you're like, oh, now I'm good. Like.

Flashmob (37:57.13) Yes.

Olivia (38:05.646) I'm good forever. Like you have to keep, that's the struggle with this is you have to keep pushing forward.

Flashmob (38:10.794) Yes, that's exactly why when I'm talking to like new producers or people that ask for advice in terms of production, etc. That's exactly why I say go slow. Because accepting the fact that you can do something at a certain level will assess in your life. And then from when it will become normal.

onwards you'll be able to go further on. Otherwise it becomes a stress and that's also why I said when you put yourself under cold water the main thing that you have to do is just accept it. You're not wanting to walk out. I turn the water off and I wait till the last drop to come down because I have to be there because I want to be there. That makes like even when you go to a gig if you want to go to the gig and you find the motivation to go to a gig

you'll play in one way. If you don't want to go to the gig and you're just going for this because it's work and that you'll play in another way. So there's ways that you can transform your experience in order for it to be fruitful and in order for it to help you grow within that experience. And that is in the creative process as well.

Olivia (39:17.915) Right.

Olivia (39:31.394) Yeah, I think that's a great plan.

Olivia (39:36.742) 100%. And when I find that I don't want to do something like, I'm so passionate about this show, for example, but sometimes I find myself gravitating towards the work that is a little more transactional, like with my other side of my business that I know just needs to get done. And what helps me refocus on

pouring into the creativity of this and building a brand is reconnecting to my why. Why did I start? Why did I decide to do this in the first place? It can be so discouraging to pursue a creative endeavor and when you reconnect with your why it can help fuel and give you new ideas. Honestly, give you new ideas on whatever it is you're creating. So I.

I think that that's like, you're talking about going to a gig and you don't want to do it because you're tired and you had a long week. It's like, well, what's your why? Like, remember you get to do this. This is some, this is a privilege and it's a privilege to be able to create. And not everybody can say that they can carve out time in their life for creativity. So I think that remembering that it's a privilege of reconnecting to your why is really important.

Flashmob (40:52.298) Yes, indeed. Indeed. I often think when I don't want to go to a gig, I go back to when I was a kid in the basement of my parents' house and that I used to play and that I used to have so much fun. And there were girls, and even when there were girls that I used to like, or everyone with my friends were having fun, I would just be... It was just, you know.

There's nothing else. And then how can you go from that to not, you know, being excited to go and play? And that's where all the struggle of being, you know, of the job comes in, of the repetition of you growing as a man, of having a family and having a million things on your head that become, that in a way influence your...

Olivia (41:31.866) Right.

Flashmob (41:44.258) perspective on something that is very simple at the end of the day because you just go into play the music you like without overcomplicating it.

Olivia (41:50.838) Right? Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. It's, yeah. And I think for most artists, they can say they feel the same, that it's the music that drives them, because we talked about this before, and we don't have to get into it. The artists that are there for the wrong reasons, you know, the girls or the fame or whatever, it's not sustainable. And so...

Flashmob (41:54.722) So that's the why, you know, you just.

Olivia (42:17.694) the people who will find value in this episode, they share a similar why to what you just described.

Flashmob (42:24.822) I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure.

Olivia (42:26.486) Yeah. Well, this is, I'm really happy that we can take deeper dives into these topics. Um, because like I'm learning a lot about myself too, as, as we talk about this, you're saying things that even though I'm not an artist, like I can really resonate with some of the struggles and. And, you know, it's, yeah, it's, it's really great. So what would you say? Um,

Flashmob (42:52.27) Mm.

Olivia (42:54.662) you know, based on this conversation, like what, what would you want the audience to take away from it?

Flashmob (43:02.171) Well, what I'm reflecting on a lot during this period, especially after Covid, is how your personal journey does not have to be detached from your artist career.

How many people can say out loud that they're the same in normal life as they are as artists? So, like for example, I'm pretty stubborn, I have a strong personality to deal with, I'm not someone very easy to deal with, and if you get on the wrong side of me, it's not... I'm not very... Leo!

Olivia (43:52.003) What was your zodiac sign again? Leo, right.

Flashmob (43:55.186) I'm a Leo. But in music, I've always been, I'm so passionate and I cared so much that I wouldn't be me. So I wouldn't tell someone to, if I had to, I've always tried to, which in a way has taught me to be more diplomatic, which is good. But on the other side, my journey has been always...

I've always had this thought, okay, I'd love to be the same in my music as I am in normal life. And I'm getting there now. I am. And it's a lot of it is to do with, with the fact that you and the artist are not detached anymore, which was what I had before COVID. I was a zombie. Flash mob was one piece and Sandra was the other. And I sort of suffered.

Olivia (44:31.095) Right.

Flashmob (44:49.442) going to the airport, having to put Sandro in flash mob to go and do something and then come back, detach him again and do my other things. And so if it becomes, if your journey becomes so true that you're the same thing because you're completely true in what you do and true to yourself and secure about what you're doing and positive because not

because you don't allow the industry to bombard you with you need to do this and you need to do that. Then you've built your own world where you're deciding to do things and where you are.

same thing and that takes the conflict out of the equation.

Olivia (45:35.714) It is a lot easier to live in congruence wherever you are, putting yourself in any scenario, the grocery store with your family at a gig. If you're the same person in all those places, life becomes a lot easier. Yeah.

Flashmob (45:49.806) But then also, and I don't want to say anything negative because we can't. But I mean, you know, you get to a point where, oh, you're with your family and you're buying a yoghurt. You know, a yoghurt because... And then, I mean, you're not so important. I mean, A, I'm talking about myself. I mean, Sandra, you're not... I don't want cares.

And why would you feel the necessity to frame every moment of your life? You're taking away from other people. So why don't you go into your own life and live it. And then yes, you frame, you play the game a little bit and what is necessary, but that there's, there's a healthy way to do it. And there's more value in doing your own thing on your own label, in, in being yourself and in, in not being, you know,

clown, then...

Olivia (46:47.312) Mm-hmm.

Flashmob (46:50.798) than being a clown, there's more value in just, you know, so. Yeah.

Olivia (46:52.674) Yeah. So be the same person everywhere, but you don't have to show every aspect of your life on social media. That's great. It's great. It's great. It's great advice to end on. I'm so happy that we got to do this and I'm really looking forward to more deep dives with you.

Flashmob (47:00.051) Exactly, that's what I wanted to say.

Flashmob (47:07.906) Thank you, Olivia.